Should it make the cut? [Archive]

theARTiSAN

07-16-2002, 01:36 AM

Hey guys -
I need a little feedback.
My band is working on our 2nd CD, and I have an original (still very DEMO) track that I am trying to decide if it should be included or not.

This is an original piece, MIDI backing track (done in Cakewalk - mostly) with guitar and vocal work Multi-tracked in Cool Edit Pro. This demo features all me on everything - so excuse the roughness, it still is very much a DEMO (and very much copywritten - ha ha)

Let me know if it should be released or sh*tcanned.

Thanks! You opinion really does matter.:thumbsup:
(The demo is available for download from one of my personal sites, and is in MP3 format... The WAV does sound a little better.)

Please post, PM or email your thoughts - I have almost a month before we hit the studio - so a decision has to be made before then.

Get the File >>HERE<< (http://www.flatface.net/~theartisan/cgi-bin/IKB/ikonboard.cgi?s=;act=Attach;ID=47;f=17;t=1;p=1)

Moved file location so I Edited link. Reworked the MIDI sequence portion to include bass track, and remixed the guitar work a bit too

http://www.flatface.net/~theartisan/cgi-bin/IKB/ikonboard.cgi?s=;act=Attach;ID=47;f=17;t=1;p=1

tavenger5

07-16-2002, 03:43 PM

Great song! I like the harmonies and everything!

Only compliant is the cheap sounding drums. They also sound a little busy... Doesn't sound like a hi-hat sound is being used. I see what's trying to be done with the beat, but it's not working. I would just go a steady 2 - 4 rock beat with occasional grace notes. I'm assuming you have a drummer that'll take care of that when you record in the studio?

Are you running your synth through a keyboard, is that your sound card? It just sounds a little dry. Also, try bringing the vocals a little more up front. Boost the mid-high range, and add a little more reverb maybe.

I'm impressed with the guitar and vocal sound overall though. Guitar is really hard to get sounding right and it sounds nailed! Sweet!

theARTiSAN

07-17-2002, 07:04 AM

*blush* Thanks bro!
I know the drums are on the cheesy side... I do have a drummer. I just used the Cakewalk Pro Session drummer with a fusion-like beat for the demo.

No keyboard - MIDI all hand-sequenced in Cakewalk run through Soundblaster Live. The rest all done in CoolEdit Pro.

Thanks for the feedback! A few more reviews and I'll definately know what to do with it! ;)

theARTiSAN

07-19-2002, 10:19 AM

Come on guys...
I don't want to have to beg for feedback - That's why I posted it on this site:
Cuz you're smart, music oriented people with something intelliegent to say.

I really need your thoughts!

Loginar

07-24-2002, 08:30 PM

i think it is good you should include it

theARTiSAN

11-19-2002, 11:10 PM

I reworked the midi to include a bass track, and completely changed the drums. I think it sounds a little better now.

lostdave

11-20-2002, 12:09 AM

Have I heard this version?

theARTiSAN

11-20-2002, 12:17 AM

No, actually - you heard the revision I made right before this (without bass)

I should add here, that I'd like to give (lost)Dave credit for giving me a great push in the right direction on the bassline that was driving me nuts! Thanks again Dave :thumbsup:

The bassline is a little weird, but it's a good example of a guitar player trying to sequence a bassline :laugh:

lostdave

11-20-2002, 02:14 AM

New mix sounds great....the drums are much more bettererer....
OVerall a tidier/tighter mix......drum speration sound a bit wierd...sounded like kick and snare were panned.....

ZelRiptha

11-20-2002, 11:49 AM

I can't hear it - link doesn't work for me?

lostdave

11-20-2002, 02:20 PM

It's a link to an MP3 ZR....and it'z zipped..so y'll hafta download it it and unzip the use somthing like winamp or mediaplayer to listen to it.

Dave

theARTiSAN

11-20-2002, 02:49 PM

I'll be posting a mastered version in a few days ;)

LifeIsForPosers

11-20-2002, 02:52 PM

I like it

ZelRiptha

11-20-2002, 03:18 PM

Ahh, works now - not sure what was up earlier... I'll give a listen.

ZelRiptha

11-20-2002, 03:45 PM

I'm listening on a terribly crappy rig here at work (no stereo even), but it sounds pretty darn good to me. One comment: the piano(?) at the beginning is a bit dry (perhaps intentional?) - some MIDI controller 91 or some audio channel depth might fill it out a bit. Alternatively, dupe the channel in MIDI and pan one left, one right, and set off a few ticks. Make it a bit more haunting. I can't hear the bass, but that's probably this crappy speaker. Drums sounded pretty good to me, but I'm not a drummer. Might have more thoughts if I listen on a real computer... ;)

Art, what's sequenced here? Piano, Bass, drums, bit of synth - that it?

And please disregard these comments entirely if they're due to my poor sound reproduction here...

ZelRiptha

11-20-2002, 03:48 PM

BTW, cool lyrics :)

voice of god

11-20-2002, 06:23 PM

Well if thats a song that DOESNT make the cut I'd love 2 hear the ones that do make it.

theARTiSAN

11-20-2002, 07:24 PM

Thanks guys :thumbsup: appreciate the feedback!

ZR - I've got Piano, Bass, drums, and a bit of synth, with some orchestra "hits" that mirror the synth and Dulcimer in the break. The slap bass HAD to go... I finally found a soundfont that sounded decent (Fender Jazz Bass). So I've modified the sequence a smidge - no more slap bass.

Voice - :thumbsup: thanks man... I've got some reworking to do on some of my stuff yet, but I'll be happy to share it when I'm finished.

I think I'm done putzing with it (for now anyway), so I've been working on mastering it. I should have that done soon. I've got a "pre-master" that I've uploaded to replace the one you guys listened to. Only change in the arrangement is the bass.
It's got a punchier overall sound, but the guitars sounds a little thin, so I'm not quite done with it yet.

xj911

11-20-2002, 07:35 PM

not bad, when's the midi version coming out? :)

theARTiSAN

11-20-2002, 07:49 PM

Soon - I have one, but I need to rearrange the guitars in it a little bit...

theARTiSAN

11-21-2002, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by ZelRiptha
.... One comment: the piano(?) at the beginning is a bit dry (perhaps intentional?).....

Sorry ZR, forgot to comment on that.
I actually left it that way intentionally.
I wanted the piano to contrast the muddy intro sound.
To come in a bit piercing, dry and even a little shrill; like a realization. Might have overdone what I had in mind, but that was the concept anyway :D

ZelRiptha

11-21-2002, 11:20 PM

Ah, then, mission accomplished! ;)

And I do like the song quite a bit - nicely crafted.

BTW, can't download it again, did you move the file?

theARTiSAN

11-21-2002, 11:29 PM

No - I just uploaded a new version... Give it a couple minutes and try again ;)

theARTiSAN

11-21-2002, 11:33 PM

Ok - should be all set now ZR
And thanks for the compliment ;)

ZelRiptha

11-21-2002, 11:56 PM

Grabbing it now. Did you do all the writing/composing? Impressive :)

theARTiSAN

11-22-2002, 12:31 AM

Thanks again ZR - yes, it is all me from the lyrics and music to the sequencing and performance.
Let me know what you think of the (kinda)mastered version - I've taken it right up to the breaking point in the master, so a weaker sound system might not be able to handle it :rolleyes:

theARTiSAN

11-22-2002, 12:37 AM

BTW - let me take this opportunity to re-stress the fact that I am NOT a vocalist.
What I want is in my head, but that 'goose being strangled' sound that comes out of my mouth is as close as I can get to it ;)

besty

11-22-2002, 12:41 AM

I'm downloading now too. I write my own stuff and always love to hear others songs! Looking forward to it!!

KingXII

11-22-2002, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by theARTISAN
BTW - let me take this opportunity to re-stress the fact that I am NOT a vocalist.
What I want is in my head, but that 'goose being strangled' sound that comes out of my mouth is as close as I can get to it ;)

actually artisan it sounds great
if you are the vocalist in the song then you should sing it brings out the lyrics in the song.

besty

11-22-2002, 01:22 AM

I think it sounds great. Definitely put it in there. Maybe make it a bit shorter if you are planning to sell the CD. And by the way, you're not a bad singer at all!!

Besty

theARTiSAN

11-22-2002, 01:30 AM

:: scuffs shoe on the ground and blushes ::
Shucks - thanks guys :D

King - yeah that's me... I've just never liked the sound of my own voice. Thanks :thumbsup:

Besty - Yeah, I know... Before it gets to the "real" studio, I'll probably find a way to trim some time off it... (Almost) 6 minutes is a bit of a stretch on the modern attention span I agree.

KingXII

11-22-2002, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by KingXII
actually artisan it sounds great
if you are the vocalist in the song then you should sing it brings out the lyrics in the song.

BTW artisan include it. Do Mods get a copy? :D I'll be happy to pay for shipping. Don't shorten it too much 4.5-5 mins is the best length for a song in my opinion, too short would have me begging for more, too long and I'll get tired of it.

theARTiSAN

11-22-2002, 02:02 AM

Actually - the 2nd CD's production has been called off and is on indefinate hold (because of band 'business'). But when it's finished, I could probably let a few 'promotional copies' fly :D

I've got another piece posted online. A cover version of Mustang Sally (NOT in the style of Wilson Pickett). If anyone's interested in hearing it, drop a PM or email and I'll send the link.

ZelRiptha

11-22-2002, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by theARTISAN
Thanks again ZR - yes, it is all me from the lyrics and music to the sequencing and performance.
Let me know what you think of the (kinda)mastered version - I've taken it right up to the breaking point in the master, so a weaker sound system might not be able to handle it :rolleyes:

Damn good, actually. Gets better every time. Sounds a hell of a lot better on my home system :).

And your concerns about your vocal talent are unwarranted - most of the stuff I hear on the radio lately doesn't even compare... slurring, garbled, junky lyrics. Sounds fine to me. :)

Length: Personally, I prefer a good 5-6 minute number to a 3 minute one - the 3 minute ones, the good ones especially, are over too quickly to completely enjoy, IMO. Unless you're after radio play time (who gets that anyway?), stick to the artistic length. Anything else would be chopped.

I'll keep an eye for "flying promos", but it sounds like it'll be a good'n. Y'all self-publishing?

theARTiSAN

11-22-2002, 04:18 AM

Mostly - gig promos and plays/plugs via affiliate performances and stuff.
Nothing "big time" yet :rolleyes:

Will Power

11-22-2002, 05:01 AM

I have just downloaded this to my jukebox. Im not a musician like most of you guy's, im just a humble singer (middle of the road at that ) But ive listened to your track and I really think it's excelent. You would be crazy not to use it on your CD. (But that's just my oppinion )

Best of luck.
Will

theARTiSAN

11-22-2002, 04:42 PM

Thanks Will - I appreciate it!

KingXII

11-22-2002, 11:04 PM

artisan the song is stuck in my head it proably won't come out for a few weeks or even longer since this is only a demo and not the final.

ZelRiptha

11-22-2002, 11:12 PM

Yup, another positive review from my wife, sounds like a winner Art :). I'd gladly pay for a promo copy. :D

theARTiSAN

11-22-2002, 11:55 PM

That means a lot to me guys - thanks :thumbsup:

KingXII

11-22-2002, 11:57 PM

i played the song in my car while I was driving my friends and they said it was very good too.

lostdave

11-23-2002, 12:02 AM

The latest version...
First verse...the vocals seem to have been lost in the mix...they don't come back out the front until the start of the chorus(at least for my ears anyeas :))

New Bass sounds sounds much bettererer than the slap....hmmmm..wonder where you got that sound font from :?:

I need faster broadband!!!!

Dave

ZelRiptha

11-23-2002, 12:09 AM

Ah, Dave, good point, when I was playing it for Celeste (my wife), the initial vocals were a bit muddy and harder to make out - I could hear them okay in headphones, but in open air with some ambient noise (and bigger woofers), they were harder to make out.

theARTiSAN

11-23-2002, 12:47 AM

Good point - I didn't notice that until I was listening to it on my (real) stereo... Via headphones and my PC soundsystem, it seemed ok...

I'll rework that :thumbsup:
That soundfont was perfect too Dave - thanks again!

theARTiSAN

11-23-2002, 05:41 AM

Fixed now - turned out to be a bit of a project :laugh:
I couldn't take them up quite as far as I wanted to because they had a tendancy to "splatter" all over the guitar work... I had recorded this with my old mic. If it bugs me enough, I'll redo the vocals with the new one. :rolleyes:
I brought them up as far as I could, and also tweaked the mid-high EQ a tad too.

Sounds a little better to my ear - how about yours?

:: covers ears with hands - rocking back and forth ::
it's only a demo it's only a demo it's only a demo
I will not drive my self crazy over a demo
I will not drive my self crazy over a demo
Why doesn't that ever work??? :laugh:

jeaniesing

11-23-2002, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by theARTISAN
I've just never liked the sound of my own voice.
Remember that what you hear and what we hear are 2 very different things! I wanna hear a song you've done where the melody is in that falsetto range.... LOVE a good falsetto range on a guy!

If you are truly questioning whether to include this on a CD I think I'd like to hear some of the other demos you've got! I do like the song and don't wanna get picky about the balance/sound because - as you say - its a demo.... here're my stray thoughts:

....intro has a nice hook (piano).... fade it in? or start it a wee bit later so the "mud" is more established? (I read what you said to ZR about the dry sound)...
....Lyrics are sensational - maybe I'm suffering a guilty conscience ;)
....Like the polyphonic/syncopated vocal lines in the bridge and coda respectively - good effect of movement when the piano hook fades.... maybe I'd like to hear even more of that in the coda - even on a vocal neutral sound
.... shout section after bridge without an offbeat.... must listen to that again... does movement stall? Maybe more earnest vocals will keep the pace up... or heavier drums?
....not sold on that au capella last note - ambient perc like a cymbal roll that lingers maybe? or section slightly longer? Just when Ii start to grasp what's happening its done

As always my thoughts are musical in nature and will apply to the band doing the piece, not a demo! Don't change a hair for me ;)

lostdave

11-23-2002, 08:16 AM

I liked the closer.....
Had a touch of Aerosmith to it.....
But I am a harmony junkie :D

ave

ZelRiptha

11-23-2002, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by theARTISAN
Fixed now - turned out to be a bit of a project :laugh:
I couldn't take them up quite as far as I wanted to because they had a tendancy to "splatter" all over the guitar work... I had recorded this with my old mic. If it bugs me enough, I'll redo the vocals with the new one. :rolleyes:
I brought them up as far as I could, and also tweaked the mid-high EQ a tad too.

Sounds a little better to my ear - how about yours?

:: covers ears with hands - rocking back and forth ::
it's only a demo it's only a demo it's only a demo
I will not drive my self crazy over a demo
I will not drive my self crazy over a demo
Why doesn't that ever work??? :laugh:

Dude, you stayed up all night working on that! Doh, shoulda waited 'til today to make comments ;).

First verse intelligible now :thumbsup:

It's perfect now, don't touch it! ;)

theARTiSAN

11-24-2002, 01:42 AM

This is some excellent feedback guys - thanks a ton!
Datz why I posted it here :thumbsup:

Originally posted by jeaniesing
I wanna hear a song you've done where the melody is in that falsetto range.... LOVE a good falsetto range on a guy!
Aaaaaaahhh...
I do have a cover of Five for Fighting's 'Superman' (believe it or not) that is peppered with falsetto... If I get really brave, I'll let you listen to it - Its not really the greatest vocal work (even for ME :laugh: )

Originally posted by jeaniesing
....intro has a nice hook (piano).... fade it in? or start it a wee bit later so the "mud" is more established? (I read what you said to ZR about the dry sound)...
I wanted the piano to punch right in - like a smack in the face (wake up call) sort of thing... I agree about the muddy intro.
It's a sound that I made out of a quitar slide and harmonic that I slowed down ad did a million other things to for the effect... I wanted it to be longer, but also wanted it to slide into the timpani/orchestra 'hits'/pad rumble... If I started it sooner, it would bottom out too early. I'd redo it, but it would take a year to remember what I did to get that sound. ;)

Originally posted by jeaniesing
....Lyrics are sensational - maybe I'm suffering a guilty conscience ;)
:rolleyes: Reeeeeeally? :laugh:

Originally posted by jeaniesing
........ shout section after bridge without an offbeat.... must listen to that again... does movement stall? Maybe more earnest vocals will keep the pace up... or heavier drums?
You’re right, it does seem to stall a bit... I'm not going to change the demo, but when the studio time comes, the vocals are going to punch a little more, and the drums are going to fill it in (I hope).

Originally posted by jeaniesing
....not sold on that au capella last note - ambient perc like a cymbal roll that lingers maybe? or section slightly longer? Just when Ii start to grasp what's happening its done
It seemed like a good end to the story - an argument with one's self. I'm like Dave in the fact that I'm a "harmony junkie". In the studio, I picture a never-ending cymbal :D

theARTiSAN

11-24-2002, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by ZelRiptha
Dude, you stayed up all night working on that! Doh, shoulda waited 'til today to make comments ;).

First verse intelligible now :thumbsup:

It's perfect now, don't touch it! ;)
It was true, and after I ran it through my home system, I heard it! Glad you and Dave brought it to my attention! It’s easy to rely on my little computer audio world to give accurate sound – and sometimes it doesn’t! Thanks man!
:: collapses from lack of sleep ::

theARTiSAN

11-24-2002, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by lostdave
I liked the closer.....
Had a touch of Aerosmith to it.....
But I am a harmony junkie :D

:: tosses Dave a Beer ::
I’ll drink to that!
To harmony junkies!

theARTiSAN

11-24-2002, 01:47 AM

I want to thank everyone again for their critique!
I’m wanting a rounded analysis of it, and between you all of the input here - you guys are helping immensely!

—John pointed out some equalization flaws in the 1st version and laughed at my drum track. THANKS! I’ve reEQed and resequenced a new drum track that I’m happier with.

--Dave gave me the roots for my bass track, laughed at my selection of bass patches, slapped me for not using soundfonts (and told me where to get some) as well as post production help. All this helped get a decent sounding bass and drum track and much better master! This man is owed MUCH credit!

—ZR offered me some great analysis and support, and pointed out the vocals volume flaw. In addition to helping me gain a wider perspective about the meaning of the song (because he forced me to try to put into words what it was about, and try to convey it) he was willing to listen while I spilled my guts ;)

--Jeanie who offered a total top to bottom critique from the perspective of a music instructor! A contribution of incalculable value. Not only did you point out what does and doesn't work on the DEMO, you forced me to take more of a look at what I was going to do in the studio!

As well as everyone else who posted a comment on whether (or why) you liked it (or not) – IMO your feedback has taken this thing from some dumpy little recording I was luke-warm about to something I’m actually proud of.
Thank you all so much!

KingXII

11-24-2002, 01:47 AM

I blanked out on what you said in that long post about the composure of your song, but i understood some of it lol. BTW art are you posting posts right after another now?

theARTiSAN

11-24-2002, 01:55 AM

Yup King - I put all the quotes and replies together and broke it up into a few different posts. Tried to organize my replies a little :laugh:

Was I rambling again? :damn:
What did I blank you on about? ;)

KingXII

11-24-2002, 01:58 AM

uh lets just say a majority of it hehe
well some of it i actually understand but some with all the musical terms i just totally blanked out on, i kinda got some from the context.

theARTiSAN

11-24-2002, 02:04 AM

Ooooh - it was the part about the piano and the muddy intro wasn't it... I was just explaining how I did that intro sound, and why I couldn't make the intro a little longer.

I should mention that the version I have posted there is (knock on wood) a final demo of it. I uploaded it early in the morning on the 23rd.

Kinda waiting for John to give it a listen and see (as a drummer-type guy) what he thinks of the new drum sequence. He didn't like the original drums either, and was instrumental in getting me to get off my ass and fix em.

tavenger5

11-24-2002, 02:06 AM

Wow.. I haven't listened to that in a while. HUGE Improvement over the first one. The drums and bass really made the difference. Drums are beautiful! Exactly how I would play it (since I'm so square.. haha)

I can tell you did a lot of work on the guitars. Especially since there's multiple tracks.

The vocals still sound a little burried, but it's not as bad as it was. One suggestion: Pan the harmonies left or right. You'd be amazed how much this can liven things up. Since there's only one backing vocal (most of the time) contrast it with something else. Like pan the piano right (2) and the backing vocal left (10)

Another thing. That final vocal thing is could resolve from the suspended chord a little different. (instead of going up on the top vocal go down on the bottom and then resolve to a major chord. something like that..) I wouldn't worry about it though. It sounds fine.

King, this should really confuse you.. :laugh:

KingXII

11-24-2002, 02:06 AM

well the replies to jeanie too that was the worst lol.

edit and what tpearl just posted uh what can i say i just don't know what the guy said lol.

theARTiSAN

11-24-2002, 02:13 AM

Thanks John! Glad you like the new drum track ;)
The vocals (except the break and the end) are pretty much center panned. Nothing more than I got lazy.
When studio does eventually come, there definately will be good panning on the vocals. I agree, it makes a world of difference!
Thanks again for the input!

KingXII

11-24-2002, 02:16 AM

BTW artisan i'm still waiting for the stamped to run me over

:: Jeopardy theme song plays out of thin air ::

theARTiSAN

11-24-2002, 02:27 AM

The whaa?
King you totally lost me :laugh:

KingXII

11-24-2002, 02:28 AM

take notice of our # of posts, i was expecting a stamped of posts. :laugh2:

:: Jeopardy theme song plays out of thin air for the second time ::

where is that music coming from

theARTiSAN

11-24-2002, 02:31 AM

HOLY **** KING!!!
You've passed me up!
Congrats!
:: starts typing like a possessed fool ::
;)

Where's the "I blew Art outta the water" thread? :laugh:

KingXII

11-24-2002, 02:32 AM

uh i was hoping you would make it
i noticed it when i had 10 posts more than you did

theARTiSAN

11-24-2002, 03:19 AM

Here now: http://board.midibuddy.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8439
Contrats!

ZelRiptha

11-24-2002, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by theARTISAN
I want to thank everyone again for their critique!
...—ZR offered me some great analysis and support, and pointed out the vocals volume flaw. In addition to helping me gain a wider perspective about the meaning of the song (because he forced me to try to put into words what it was about, and try to convey it) he was willing to listen while I spilled my guts ;)
...Thank you all so much!

I should mention that Dave actually mentioned the first verse vocals issue, and I just seconded him.

As for the rest, I was glad to help in any way, and would be honored in the future if allowed once again to voice an opinion in the matter. If you like, consider this an open invitation for consultation at any time, for what it's worth. I'm not a professional (technically), but I'd be glad to lend my ear to the cause - a very worthy one, indeed. And it's always a pleasure to get to know you guys better. :)

lostdave

11-24-2002, 07:18 PM

And will someone make ZR glow!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KingXII

11-24-2002, 09:44 PM

i already have ZR is not spend the money i donated to him
correct me if i'm wrong ZR

ZelRiptha

11-24-2002, 11:17 PM

Well, I was holding the funds in case King decided to stick around (which it seems he has). I know, everyone seems set on getting my letters un-blacked, not sure what that fascination is ;).

theARTiSAN

11-24-2002, 11:18 PM

I stand corrected - jr. alzheimers is acting up again...

Yes, ZR - GLOW for pete's sake!

KingXII

11-24-2002, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by ZelRiptha
Well, I was holding the funds in case King decided to stick around (which it seems he has). I know, everyone seems set on getting my letters un-blacked, not sure what that fascination is ;).

fine i'll take 1000MB$ back but keep the other 1000MB$ and get a name glow now!

jeaniesing

11-25-2002, 03:21 PM

I know how to make ZR glow...... :-p

And Art - do I have to beg you to send that file (of you singing falsetto range) along to me someday?

But Seriously ZR.... its an honor that many wish to bestow upon you and that YOU must be the one to accept....

ZelRiptha

11-25-2002, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by jeaniesing
I know how to make ZR glow...... :-p

True, that is... :-p

I promised King I'd pick a color today, but have not decided yet...

Kildee Wu

11-25-2002, 03:40 PM

Sounds pretty good, although, the drums and stuff in the background could be a little more high tech, or realistic sounding. OTher then that it is great.

lostdave

11-25-2002, 03:41 PM

After art's outpuring of Thanx I think we need to set up a production house..
Midibuddy Productions Inc.

whadaya think?

jeaniesing

11-25-2002, 06:39 PM

Now there's an idea Dave.... If only there were enough hours in the day to pick apart EVERY new entry.....

lostdave

11-25-2002, 06:48 PM

Such as mine for instance...:: Hint hint 2 threads down ::

ZelRiptha

11-25-2002, 06:50 PM

He wants more pickin'?

*gets out fine toothed comb*

jeaniesing

11-25-2002, 07:34 PM

I gotcha Davey Boy!! I'll start the download when I go to bed in an hour.... (slow dialup!)

Ronny

11-25-2002, 10:12 PM

Yeah Art, I love it but have a few comments.

I wonder how it would sound if the hard guitar remained out until after the first verse was over and then came in or even quietened down when the vocals started coming back in loud and strong after verse one.

Also the song has some great sounding guitar soloing at the end and I think it is yearning for a solo in the instrumental piece after the seconds chorus when it goes slightly quieter, which is a section I love by the way.

Also how would a key change sound just after this and would it help to build the song up toward the end?

The vocals are great, harmonies sound just right.

Have you deliberatley given the song a slightly Celtic feel, maybe it's just me.

I really like it. Is this a measure of your music and where can I get more?

By the way, who's singing?

Overall it's a great track.:thumbsup:

ZelRiptha

11-25-2002, 11:28 PM

Ronny, that's all Art, singing, playing, and sequencing - whattaguy!

Okay, since I was going to go over Dave's track again, I'm listening to this one some more as well ;).

A few more comments:

The more I listen to the drum line, the more I'm thinking I don't care for the "tamborine" sound - is that supposed to be be hi-hat? (Maybe it's just SB Live's cheesy perc sounds? Bass and snare sound fine...)
Damn, I meant for this not to be aimed at the demo - Art, don't go change this stuff any more unless it makes you happy :)
Anyway, if you've got broadband, give the Yamaha soft synth (http://www.yamaha.co.uk/xg/html/h_featur.htm) a try and see if the MIDI doesn't sound more "live" (that is a 30 day fully functional demo - sounds exactly like my Yamaha DB50XG hard card). If you don't want to do that, send me a MIDI of the backing stuff, and I'll record you an MP3 for comparison. I think it'll improve the drum sound even more. Or not. I realize I'm getting very picky here.
Never said it before, but that intro "sound" kicks major bootie - whatever you did is super cool.
Panning of back-ups is perfect.
Around the 4:10-50 mark, or so (2nd chorus?) there's some piano activity in the background, and you're playing straight quarters on the ride cymbal. The piano seems a bit too hidden, and the cymbal line seems too "straight" - wish I were a drummer to make an alternate suggestion... maybe mixing in some semiquavers on strong beats, or something like that? (Looking back at Jeanie's comments, I think we're talking about the same section.)
Sorry, the only thing left is nits. ;)

lostdave

11-25-2002, 11:34 PM

I think the drums were samples......(from memory If he took my advice...the toms sound very familiar)

theARTiSAN

11-26-2002, 05:18 AM

** Promo Plug ** Be sure to listen to lostdave's original too!
It's here:
Dave - BWT I like the production label idea :thumbsup:

Jeanie - I'll upload it somewhere and PM you a link... But you have to promise:
1. not to laugh
2. to delete the file and reformat your hard drive after you listen to it (I'm pretty sure you're going to want to do that anyway after you hear it...:rolleyes: )
3. to realize that I personally don't like it, and am farily sure I could do better if I tried it again.
4. . . . . Um, that's it... ;)

Ronny - Great feedback - thanks!
Hmmm... Un 'unplugged' beginning eh? I might have to play with that - never occurred to me :D

In the break section where everything drops off, believe me, I've been itching to load it up with solo work... But, I sort of wanted to keep it open to deflate the energy a tad before it builds up to the solo (where it kicks back in)... It's been tempting, and if I get too much idle time on my hands, I might not be able to resist :laugh2:

A key change eh :damn: - blame it on Bon Jovi... Almost every title of his I've ever convered is vocally way too high for me in the first place, but steps up at the end (which causes me to herniate myself to try to sing...). Good idea, but I've been on a key change boycott for a couple years now... :rolleyes:

A celtic feel? you think so? :: listens to it again ::
HAH! I guess you might say that! No it wasn't intentional, but maybe it's just inspiration or something. I love gaelic/celtic type music; maybe that bleeds into my originals!

I'm glad you like it! Like ZR pointed out, that's all me (with some bass track sequence help from Dave ;)
I do have some others that I'm in the process of mastering - I have about 50 or so DEMO titles I've recorded over the years - BUT most of those were recorded via an analog Tascam 4-track - so they sound absolutely horrible and beyond todays restoration technology.
I will be redoing them (soon I hope) and would love to hear what you think. All I've got done are a few demo cover tunes - Mustang Sally (Wilson Pickett), I wanna be Sedated (the Ramones), Chad Kroeger's Hero and some others. But if you're like me, covers are neat and all, but nothing to get excited about... But, if you're interested, PM me and I'll upload it somewhere and give ya a link!
Thanks again for the critique!

ZR - Yeah - that's supposed to be a tambourine.... In retrospect, see as how I'm not planning to add a tambourine in the studio, I would really have to wonder why I put it in the demo...
I'm usually leave all the drumming to the professionals :thumbsup: - Instead of having my drummer follow my (often ridiculous) drum sequence, I usually give free license to create a workable track... Then, if I have changes, we'd work it out.
I'm glad you liked the intro sound - that's a guitar slide and harmonic with some major editing and production done to it :D
Again - great feedback! Thanks again!

Yes Dave - you should recognize the drums. I use those quite often now... They have a nice overall sound IMO! Thanks again!

ZelRiptha

11-26-2002, 12:25 PM

Actually, I'm glad that's really tambourine, and I'm not just crazy. The percussion all sounds hot, that's the only sound I was not harmonizing with. Funny, now that I know it's supposed to be tambourine, it doesn't bother me as much *shrug*. :D

Ronny

11-26-2002, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by theARTISAN
Ronny - Great feedback - thanks!
Hmmm... Un 'unplugged' beginning eh? I might have to play with that - never occurred to me :D

A key change eh :damn: - blame it on Bon Jovi... Almost every title of his I've ever convered is vocally way too high for me in the first place, but steps up at the end (which causes me to herniate myself to try to sing...). Good idea, but I've been on a key change boycott for a couple years now... :rolleyes:

A celtic feel? you think so? :: listens to it again ::
HAH! I guess you might say that! No it wasn't intentional, but maybe it's just inspiration or something. I love gaelic/celtic type music; maybe that bleeds into my originals!

Thinking a bit more about it I still think an unplugged start would work. Playing live I see that the best songs for audience reaction are songs which build up. If people are in the mood then when the song starts softly people will react to that and when the big punch comes in and they go crazy. Probably a great example is The Calling, Wherever You Will Go. Starts quiet, guitar joins in and a big sound for the chorus. It drops off and builds again, ok you get the picture. Perhaps you should experiment with it, you have the backing so why not.

A Key change, I like them but they need to work with the whole song. I definatley would have to hear it first but again you have the midi backing so why not give it a try, it may not work but it may.

Celtic feel, definatley when the second vocal joins.

Finally there are some really high sounding things going on in the quieter bit in the middle which match the piano, they're a bit too loud.

Of course all this is totally subjective!!

Also it's been bugging me who you sound like from the first time I heard the track. Please don't take this as a criticism but you remind me so much of Ian Anderson from Jethro Tull. One of the greatest singer/songwriters and one of my all time favourites. Take that as a compliment.

Would love you to send me the link to other stuff.

Also I have 4 tracks I would like feedback about but have no idea how to showcase them.