Midi collections and copyright...

[Jael]

Hi everyone, Hi John!

So I was thinking about adding a Ska-midi section to my website. I came to johnsworld.com (which I had bookmarked because of the javascripts for a long time) to find out that the midi collection is gone due to copyright issues.

Now my question is, should I not even bother to start collecting midi files? Asking for permission is tough because it's hardly ever clearly stated who created a particular midi file.

And what about other websites that offer free midis, like mididb.com? Do they have permission or do they just wait to be asked to take a file off the list?

As for HitTrax charging for midi-files. $16.50 for one file is outrageous, that's as much as an entire album costs in the store. You gotta have a professional interest to pay that much.

Thanks a lot!
Jael

[tavenger5]

IMO, I wouldn't start a new site. It's just not worth it. Eventually someone will bug you about the files and there's not any resources that are making new files and distrubuting them for free. You'd have a very hard time finding anything new. It doesn't matter anymore who actually made the MIDI files, but who made the song and owns copyrights to it.

mididb is a long story.

HitTrax sells files, yes, but not at $16 a pop. Depending on the current converson rate the US rate is usually about half the australian rate. You'd be amazed how many 'professional interests' there are. :)

[Jael]

Hey John!

Thanks for your quick reply.

That's actually a real bummer though. I clearly remember the good ol' days when most things on the internet were free, and last time I checked midis were not a problem either.

I know you had a great database, evidently you had to give all that up. I didn't even know that the one who owns the song copyrights also has the midi rights.

On a different note, I should probably go and download my favorite commodore64 games, before they'll be gone :)

Thanks again! Your advice will save me a lot of time and probably also some trouble.

Have a good weekend.

Jael

[JJownz]

I've looked into buying files, but even then I don't find the stuff I want. Could you help?

[Gordo]

Just arriving on this scene now, I'm kind of sorry I missed all the hubbub which has apparently gone before. I gather there was a huge archive of midi files on MidiBuddy which lawyers advised be withdrawn for copyright reasons.

My questions would be: (1) Did any lawyer try to defend MidiBuddy's right to share Midi files? (2) While I might agree that sharing copies of produced music a la Napster might lose copyright holders some sales, did anyone calculate the extent of potential sales of Midi files lost by this kind of sharing? You can't exactly go into a store and buy Midi files for every copyrighted song you want. Thus, the only "lost revenue" would be the copyright fee paid by licensed users who intend to sell their Midi arrangements -- and that's got to be a really small amount of money (3) Since when is there a law against a person making a private recording (midi or otherwise) of their own version of a song, and sharing it with friends?

Frankly, I think the Midi community has been had. Clearly, the victory has gone to those professionals who pay some royalty or licensing fee in order to sell their Midi arrangements but why should they have a monopoly on the playing of a song? If, as pros, they have a superior product why not let the superiority of their product entice the Midi public to buy their wares? How do they have the right to run everyone else out of Dodge?

If I sit down at the piano, roll tape, and record my own version of
Elton John's "This Train," I darn well had better be able to play my tape to anyone I please without worrying about infringing anyone's copyright. I would say the same goes for Midi files. These are my versions of a song, and I should be entitled to play them to whomever I please, providing I do not sell them. I am not licensed to sell them. I am, though, I think, entitled to share them with others. Even if I have a web site, and post my version of the song, is Elton really going to lose money because the world will prefer my free version over his? I'd like to think so. On the other hand, I kind of doubt it. Were he to send his lawyers to tell me to cease and desist playing my version of his song on my web site, I'd say there's something terribly wrong going on.

Really, the civilized world throughout has "freedom of expression" built into most of its countries' constitutions and my sharing of my version of someone else's song should be protected by this concept. Otherwise, I wouldn't even have the right to sing the song in the shower. The shower police would come along and turn off my water. Bills would be passed in parliaments adding a levy to shower faucets and plumbing in order to "make up the loss" for copyright holders who are not being compensated when their songs are sung by "pirates of the bath".

I, frankly, never wholeheartedly accepted the claims of the recording industry vis-a-vis Napster. I was never convinced that if a person was not able to download a song by a certain artist for free that they would automatically go out and buy the album. I think the industry was dreaming. Some statistics even showed that users of Napster actually bought more music. Granted, some people abused the system the way others do when they buy, rip and return CDs but I don't think any of this bears on Midi files.

Midi files are not the great commercial engine that is produced music. In terms of copyright revenue, they must be an infinitesimal drop in the ocean. How big can the market be for Midi files? Home stereos and most walkman cassettes, CD and MP3 units can't play them, thus virtually eliminating the entire recording industry's market. Where, then, is the loss of revenue?

I'm sorry to say this but I don't think copyright holders have gained anything by enforcing this crazy restriction on Midi files of their work. All they have done is given a monopoly to those parties sufficiently mobilized and organized to pay a licensing fee
to reproduce the works for profit. What about the rest of us who aren't looking to make a profit? In my view, our fundamental freedoms are being undercut. We should be able to make midi files and share them as we please as long as we don't sell them or use them commercially. And speaking of commerical use, how many times are certain songs sung at weddings practically every day of the year without any compensation going to the copyright holders? Oh-oh, now I've done it. Here come the Wedding Police ...

[§ereña]

wow....i think theartisan or tpearl5 should handle that :)

[Shai]

Hello Jael
I Think That Its Good To collect Midi Files
Because Its Like You Buy A Cd Or Cassette Or Vinyl
So I Think That You Should

Have A Nice Week

[lostdave]

This subject has been covered many times in many different forums.

I perform in venues(pubs and clubs) and as far as a royalties issue goes..the onus is the VENUE not the performer to pay the licencing fee back to APRA (this is in Australia at least).

The way I look at it ... MIDI Files have no commercial viability unless you sell them or you use them in some form of Public performance


My 2 Cents worth


Dave

[tavenger5]

Originally posted by Gordo
(1) Did any lawyer try to defend MidiBuddy's right to share Midi files?



Nope. I was tired of them calling me and saying that I was infriging on copyright. I obviously didn't want to mess with these big companies for something I, than considered, a hobbie


How big can the market be for Midi files?



You'd be amazed how many people buy these things for commercial use. Obviously the market isn't as big as an actual recording would be, but people do use them for something.

I completely agree with your comments. The thing is, the copyright agencies only bother large database sites that carry at least 1000 files and get a good number of hits a day. I redesigned this site so it wasn't a large database and it appeared that I'm abiding by their rules. (by selling commercial files) I am, but I'm still allowing people to post files of their own. If they bother me about it, with the click of a link I can make the entire board private and say 'problem solved'. I couldn't do that with the old site.

Obviously the recording industry will be doing something within the next couple years about mp3 copyright and that bull****. New laws will probably have to be passed to accommodate the rules and regulations that the internet bring.

[twinpets]

If a live band goes out and performs 4 brackets of cover material in any venue, the copyright owner gets no compensation for those 45 songs played on the night. If a performer goes out and plays 45 songs with midi backing, the result is the same. The big boys are intimidationg the little boys with regard to this issue because they have the money and legal clout to make an arguement. But it's wrong. If a the person who writes the files wants to be paid for their effort -well, go sell 'em. But realistically, there are too many people out there who's motives are just to share. Thank you for sharing.