Copyright Laws for Live Playing

[voice of god]

Is it true that if someone at one of your shows asks you where you get your midi files from, you should say that you buy them? As it is illegal to do them yourself or get them free off the net.

[The Keeper]

if someone asks me where i get them, I tell them that I do them myself, because 95% of the files on the net(excluding this forum) are crap. But if they want files, hey, go on the net and download as many as they want, or pay me to do it for them...LOL

[voice of god]

any copyright laws that you know of?

[Nyxan]

From what I understand(which isn't much - lol) any song that you play which isn't your own you are supposed to pay royalties to the composer. So therefore this applies to midi's (even though they arn't technically songs) that you have downloaded.:borg:

[voice of god]

I think thats right. But pro sequences should have already paid these royalties.

So if you say that you buy all your files and then copy them all onto one disk for convenience, you should be in the clear.

right?

[Nyxan]

Not sure about that. Radio stations pay every time that they play a song. So I'm assumming that if you play for profit you pay for performing the song weather you bought it legally of not. The best way to find out would be to ring APPRA and ask anonymously ofcourse. If you find out anything please let me know.

[voice of god]

good call. I'll let you know if I find the motivation to ring them(I really should do it)

I think the odds of getting sued or busted for playing with midi backing, without paying royalties are pretty slim. But it wouldn't hurt to know what is legal or not.

[willi001]

Pretty soon Metallica will swoop in here and get everyone for there midi's of their songs...Oh wow they must be losing millions on all the midi copies of "For Whom the Bell Tolls" people are using..I really hope they have better things to do!!!!:);)

[lostdave]

I have posted on this topic before.....
the venue pays a an anual fee to APRA to cover anything you perform (as long as it is not "the rose")...can't remember how much the amount is...but if you check a standard booking agreement thyere will be somthing like this :

"The Venue shall be responsible for satisfying the demands of APRA in relation to any royalties, which may be claimed by that body for the music to be used at the performance(s)"

That is and has been standard on most contracts that I have seen in the last 10 years or so....looks to me like it isn't the performers problem, but the venue.


Dave

[Nyxan]

How does that work when you dont have contracts with the venue. In all the time that I've worked down here (20 years) I've never signed any contract with a venue. Also I agree wlth you Willi, you'd think they would have better things to do. Maybe make another record or somthing like that, it'd be more contructive (and profitable) that chasing us, thats if they could find us all anyway.

[Ronny]

When I buy a midi from hands-on-midi.com I get a text file with the Licence stating I have paid and am allowed to use the file in public performances.

[voice of god]

hmmm... thats interesting Ronny.

So does this mean the ones you havent paid for and are using are all illegal?

I'm not seriously worried about getting busted, I'm just curious as to the actual law.

Have to ring APRA and find out.

[Zack]

I've seen some small pages even that were approached by companies saying they had to take them down. I don't really get it. One wrestling site had to take down all their WWF multimedia even midis of themes when they recieved a notice from them due to "copyright infringement"(most of them were horrible anyway!:p) but theres plenty out there still, I don't think theres anyway to get to everyone...yet lets hope not!

Zack

[Ronny]

I've copied and pasted the licence for you to have a look at. It's quite interesting!!

HANDS ON MIDI SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT.

This is a Legal Agreement between you, the end user, and Hands On MIDI Software Ltd, a UK private limited company ("Hands On"). BY DOWNLOADING MATERIAL FROM THIS WEB SITE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT.

1. GRANT OF LICENSE - This Hands On License Agreement ("License") permits you to use one copy of the Hands On software product acquired with this License on any single computer, keyboard, Material player or any other type of equipment that can utilise the material that has been downloaded.

2. COPYRIGHT - This License is not an assignment of any rights of the copyright in the work. All copyrights and title associated with the Material and its associated documentation (I.e. -lyric files, either as printed matter or in ASCII format) remains the sole property of Hands On. International copyright law protects all Materials available from the web site. You may make one copy of the Material solely for backup or archival purposes.

3. USAGE -The Material can be used and adapted for your personal use. This includes the rights for you to use the Material as backing material for live performances. You can use the Material to create audio products (CD,MD,Tapes etc), for sale at venues and for demonstration material provided that no more than 1,000 units are manufactured in a single one year period and that all the products contain live singing which would render them useless as a "Karaoke" (Backing track) product. Note - If you intend selling tapes at venues an additional licence will be required from the original copyright holder or from their official representatives. You may record the Material without live vocal parts onto digital audio tape (D.A.T.) or Mini Disc provided that tape is used only for rehearsals and live performances.

4. RESTRICTIONS
(i) You may not swap, give away, loan, rent, lease, transfer (including any type of electronic transmission), dispose of or allow the data to be distributed in any manner which could morally or financially damage Hands On.
(ii) You may not make commercial audio backing tracks, including Karaoke type products made in whole or part from the Materials.
(iii) You may not use a sound recording of the Material to be used in whole or part on any visual presentation medium which includes film and/or video tape.
(iv) You may not print music from any part of the Material.
(v) You may not reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the Materials.

5. TRANSFER -You may not rent or lease the Materials but you may transfer your rights under this Agreement on a permanent basis provided you transfer all copies of the Materials and associated data along with all written or computer matter, and the recipient agrees to the terms of this Agreement. Any transfer must include all versions of the Materials, which includes any and all adaptations and modified versions made from the original Material.-

LIMITED WARRANTY

LIMITED WARRANTY - Hands On warrants that (a) the MIDI files will load into any device which correctly imports a Standard MIDI file, as defined in the MIDI specification from the MIDI Manufacturers Association; and (b) Any diskette, sent via terrestrial mail will be free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal use and service for a period of thirty days from the date of receipt.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES - In the event of a download error being detected during the transfer of a valid order, Hands On will re-send to the customer a duplicate of the order free of any and all charges. In the event of physical product that is found to be faulty upon the return to the office of the faulty diskette and a copy of your receipt. This Limited Warranty is void if failure of the software or hardware has resulted from accident, abuse, or misapplication.

NO OTHER WARRANTIES - TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, HANDS ON DISCLAIMS ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, WITH RESPECT TO THE SOFTWARE.

NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES - TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, HANDS ON SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OTHER DAMAGES WHATSOEVER ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THIS PRODUCT. HANDS ON'S ENTIRE LIABILITY UNDER ANY PROVISION OF THIS AGREEMENT SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT ACTUALLY PAID BY YOU FOR THE SOFTWARE.

[voice of god]

hmmmmm....

[pullmyfinga]

midi .. although a digital/data format .. would still come under a "recorded music policy" wouldn't it? ..

therefore, it's kind of music that's been recorded without the consent of the artist?

[eotpman18]

whats the point were gonna do it any way why try to stop us

[Nyxan]

It's called greed eotpman

[Ronny]

Thought this was quite interesting and I'm a bit surprised by it!!

This includes the rights for you to use the Material as backing material for live performances. You can use the Material to create audio products (CD,MD,Tapes etc), for sale at venues and for demonstration material provided that no more than 1,000 units are manufactured in a single one year period

[Stilcrazy]

pullmyfinga I think you are right it is under the "recorded music policy"

[voice of god]

That is interesting Ronny. So you could record a cover song using the purchased backing track and sell 1000 copies a year

[bobbyboy]

People should let us just use the midi files, it's not like they're actually their songs.

[Ronny]

Yeah vog. that's what i read into it!

[jrobertson]

throw in my bit.
the performing rights society (PRS) demand to know a list which should be filled in at every gig what songs you played the duration of the song and the author of the song.
in return your slapped with a bill to be paid to the author of the song.
Gladley only every one or two years they come out the woodwork and pounce!

[lostdave]

Even If my Gig is Direct, I generate a booking agreement. It locks the venue in and there is then no issues with royalties. I like to cover my arse....so to speak.

about the only gigs I do that I don't do booking agreements for is the $CASH$$ gigs...which are few and far between these days.

but I think you will find that the venue pays an annual LIcence fee to APRA. If they have a jukebox(and which venues don't) they will pay for a (and I quote) Phonograph Licence and they have to have one for EVERY area that they have a jukebox. Live entertainment, I assume, would be similar. Either way... I cover my self. If you wan't I will post my Full DIY booking agreement :D


Dave

[voice of god]

post away Dave, I'd like to see that.