AMD vs Intel?

[Calan]

Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?

I'll be using Cakewalk Pro Audio (or sonar) and a Duo audio board for the
time being.

Thanks in advance!

Calan

AxMaster Guitar Software
www.jcsautomation.com
www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
Music software and web design/hosting

"Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"

[Edi Zubovic]

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:18:31 GMT, "Calan"
<calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote:

>Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
>
>I'll be using Cakewalk Pro Audio (or sonar) and a Duo audio board for the
>time being.
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Calan
>
>AxMaster Guitar Software
>www.jcsautomation.com
>www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
>Music software and web design/hosting
>
>"Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"
>
>

Any having a "Denormals Are Zero" (DAZ) feature. I have an AMD 2600+,
it hasn't it and I have sometimes spikes which I can control but
again, if Intel would have such a feature, it would be my next choice.
But then, dithering fixes denormalisation issues anyway.

I think Intel is more promising than AMD at the leading edge though
(SSE2, SSE3, Hyper-Threading etc). But as to power, I'm fine with the
AMD as well for now.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[Eric Griffin]

Personally, I'd look for the most stable motherboard/chipset. The proc
really doesn't matter so much except to zealots.

My lurking career here and on the Cakewalk newsgroups has often led me to
Scott Reams's advice, which is worth looking for. He builds and uses AMD
because, in his experience, Athlons have a higher maximum load for DAW use
than P4s.

I've chosen to use Athlons for my last two machines because they were about
$100 cheaper than comparable Intel machines. Then I go and spend the
leftover $100 on sample libraries and such. :)

--Eric

"Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
news:1LTZa.4518$eY3.1991310465@twister2.starband.n et...
> Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
>
> I'll be using Cakewalk Pro Audio (or sonar) and a Duo audio board for the
> time being.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Calan
>
> AxMaster Guitar Software
> www.jcsautomation.com
> www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
> Music software and web design/hosting
>
> "Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"
>
>
>

[Bill Lorentzen]

I use nothing but Athlons, and I am very satisfied. They are usually louder
boxes though, because they run hotter and require more fanning, if that will
be a problem. I keep my 3 boxes in a separate room. I could not possibly
have them all in the control room.

Bill L

"Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
news:1LTZa.4518$eY3.1991310465@twister2.starband.n et...
> Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
>
> I'll be using Cakewalk Pro Audio (or sonar) and a Duo audio board for the
> time being.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Calan
>
> AxMaster Guitar Software
> www.jcsautomation.com
> www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
> Music software and web design/hosting
>
> "Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"
>
>
>

[Thomas Bishop]

"Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
> Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?

I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is very loud
but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.

[Martin]

Agreed, Athlons are much louder. I have an Athlon 1.2 ghz and a Pentium 2.4
ghz. The Athlon sounds like a jet ready for takeoff. The stock Pentium was
far quieter. I then added a Zalman CNPS7000-CU heatsink and a quiet Zalman
power supply to the Pentium. That toned things down even further. Then I
built an insulated box to house the computer. Again, lost a few decibals.
It's very quiet now. I say go with the Pentium and then start working on
making it quiet. If you keep the computer in another room then it's probably
not an issue. Mine sits right next to where my gear is.

Martin


"Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:EeXZa.523$%i4.403008550@newssvr12.news.prodig y.com...
> "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
> > Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
>
> I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is very loud
> but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.
>
>

[Eric Griffin]

I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons are
necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
other things being equal.

On my last round of system building, the Zalman flower cooler was the
quietest heatsink/fan for either AMD or Intel when paired with a
large-diameter, slow-rpm fan. It also cools well. I keep it on a low
voltage and cannot hear it when I put my head next to the computer case of
my Athlon XP2600 system.

How would having a P4 instead of the Athlon be quieter?

--Eric

"Martin" <langem@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:EBXZa.731434$Vi5.16716455@news1.calgary.shaw. ca...
> Agreed, Athlons are much louder. I have an Athlon 1.2 ghz and a Pentium
2.4
> ghz. The Athlon sounds like a jet ready for takeoff. The stock Pentium was
> far quieter. I then added a Zalman CNPS7000-CU heatsink and a quiet Zalman
> power supply to the Pentium. That toned things down even further. Then I
> built an insulated box to house the computer. Again, lost a few decibals.
> It's very quiet now. I say go with the Pentium and then start working on
> making it quiet. If you keep the computer in another room then it's
probably
> not an issue. Mine sits right next to where my gear is.
>
> Martin
>
>
> "Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> news:EeXZa.523$%i4.403008550@newssvr12.news.prodig y.com...
> > "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
> > > Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
> >
> > I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is very
loud
> > but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.
> >
> >
>
>

[Martin]

> I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons are
> necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
> other things being equal.

True

> On my last round of system building, the Zalman flower cooler was the
> quietest heatsink/fan for either AMD or Intel when paired with a
> large-diameter, slow-rpm fan. It also cools well. I keep it on a low
> voltage and cannot hear it when I put my head next to the computer case of
> my Athlon XP2600 system.

It will cool adequately as long as there is not a big load on the system.
That's how I blew my first athlon processor. As long as it wasn't doing too
much it cooled good enough. After loading up the system and running for a
while, sizzle. Fried the CPU. So much for my fancy, high end, quiet,
heatsink. I would not risk that again. What a pain in the ??? Haul your PC
to the shop, new CPU, better heatsink, etc.

> How would having a P4 instead of the Athlon be quieter?

Running quiet heatsinks is safer with Pentiums, not necessarily quieter,
because they run cooler. I think that this is especially important in
localities where the temperatures are very hot.

The first Athlon I owned eventually became the was the quietest, it's dead.

Martin

[Arny Krueger]

"Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:EeXZa.523$%i4.403008550@newssvr12.news.prodig y.com
> "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
>> Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
>
> I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is very
> loud but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.

Actually, CPU chips run almost totally silently. I've never noticed any of
the noises one gets with say, large power transistors and ICs in power amps.

I hear tell its the fans that are often used with CPU chips that make the
noise...

;-)

[Mike Rivers]

In article <O1SdnYDNCc2b0aWiXTWJkQ@comcast.com> e-tgriff@comcast.net writes:

> I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons are
> necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
> other things being equal.

It's not the CPU that's noisier, it's the cooling device. If it runs
hotter for the same functional power, it needs more cooling. The
cheapest way (remember - this is a computer that people expect to be
cheap) to increase cooling is to make the small fan (which doesn't use
much metal and doesn't require fancy bearings) run faster. When it
runs faster, it makes more noise. But it may not be practical to make
a fan for a Pentium even smaller, so it can run a little slower.
Hence, a cheap Athlon computer will probably generate more noise than
a cheap Pentium.

> On my last round of system building, the Zalman flower cooler was the
> quietest heatsink/fan for either AMD or Intel when paired with a
> large-diameter, slow-rpm fan. It also cools well.

And this rig cost you how much? About $40-50? If the manufacturer
built the computer with this type of cooling instead of a tiny
turbine, it would probably increase the cost of the computer on the
department store shelf by $200 or more. Few people would pay that, so
they wouldn't sell many, perhaps meaning that it would have to cost
$400 more in order to be worth producing at all. Of course if you buy
your computers by the piece this isn't a consideration.

> How would having a P4 instead of the Athlon be quieter?

Probably no reason for that to be the case if you put the right
components together and don't worry about a few more bucks here and
there. But manufacturers of ready-to-go boxes, unless its a company
like Carillon, don't have that luxury. The stockholders don't like
anything that raises costs and cuts into the profits.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)

[Thomas Bishop]

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> Actually, CPU chips run almost totally silently. I've never noticed any of
> the noises one gets with say, large power transistors and ICs in power
amps.
>
> I hear tell its the fans that are often used with CPU chips that make the
> noise...


I knew someone would call me on that. Fine, the fans used for Athlons are
usually louder than those used for P4's. Again, this is just what I've read
from others' accounts, not my own personal experience.

[Robert Naylor]

"Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:vU5_a.525$i07.494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com on Tue, 12 Aug 2003
13:24:43 GMT

> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
>> Actually, CPU chips run almost totally silently. I've never noticed
>> any of the noises one gets with say, large power transistors and ICs
>> in power
> amps.
>>
>> I hear tell its the fans that are often used with CPU chips that make
>> the noise...
>
>
> I knew someone would call me on that. Fine, the fans used for Athlons
> are usually louder than those used for P4's. Again, this is just what
> I've read from others' accounts, not my own personal experience.

Thats typically the case, however newer P4s use as much power as AMDs these
days, so they tend to be pretty close with the odd intel chip which will
need more cooling than all the AMD ones. Then again intel does run at a
higher bus speed - which does explain the extra power requirements.

If you want a silent PC then go for a PowerPC thing. There are some G3s
that use about only 3w in power apperently. Even G4 use no power at all
compared to x86. Of course you'll be stuck on linux/macos and maybe Amiga
OS4 (when its done) with such a processor - but if the right software
becomes availible it might just be worth switching. You won't need a fancy
graphics card either - so yet one less fan to have in the system. Also the
PSU shouldn't need be as bulky and therefore silet ones might start to
become avilable (cheaply).

--
Robert Naylor aka Pobice (The Goblin) - http://www.pobice.com
ukmrr Chat Room - http://www.pobice.com/radcliffe/
Gearstones Lodge - http://www.gearstones.com/
Need A Website? - http://www.pobice.com/website/

[Arny Krueger]

"Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:vU5_a.525$i07.494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message

>> Actually, CPU chips run almost totally silently. I've never noticed
>> any of the noises one gets with say, large power transistors and ICs
>> in power amps.

>> I hear tell its the fans that are often used with CPU chips that
>> make the noise...

> I knew someone would call me on that.

;-)


> Fine, the fans used for
> Athlons are usually louder than those used for P4's.

That may be true. It may also be true that P4s of a given level of
performance dissipate less heat than comparable Athlons. OTOH, those two
extra power supply cables with connectors aren't for Athlons, they are for
P4s. If P4s use less power, why do they need extra power cables?

> Again, this is
> just what I've read from others' accounts, not my own personal
> experience.

IME, my distributor wants what seems like 2-3x the $$$ for a P4 that seems
to do about the same thing (in the real world) as a comparable Athlon. I
call this "The Intel Speed Tax". I can't believe that Compaq and Dell are
faced with the same kind of decision.

[Richard Crowley]

"Arny Krueger" wrote ...
> That may be true. It may also be true that P4s of a given
> level of performance dissipate less heat than comparable
> Athlons. OTOH, those two extra power supply cables with
> connectors aren't for Athlons, they are for P4s. If P4s use
> less power, why do they need extra power cables?

The ones I have dealt with are 12V (yellow wire).
The CPUs (AMD or Intel) don't use 12V, so they are not for the CPUs.

[Edi Zubovic]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:52:48 -0400, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
wrote:

hlons are usually louder than those used for P4's.
>
>That may be true. It may also be true that P4s of a given level of
>performance dissipate less heat than comparable Athlons. OTOH, those two
>extra power supply cables with connectors aren't for Athlons, they are for
>P4s. If P4s use less power, why do they need extra power cables?
>

It seems that some motherboard manufacturers began to utilize the aux.
12V connector for Athlon-based m/bs too. I installed recently a Soltek
m/b having Nvidia's nForce2 chipset and dual channel memory support. I
installed it as usual just to see that the PC wouldn't give a sign of
life until I looked better and found that aux. socket; plugged the
connector in and everything was working fine. It seems to reduce ie.
distribute the power supply load more efficiently now.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[Roger W. Norman]

R-R, humor! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net. See
how far $25 really goes.




"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:ISadnfej-tuiU6WiXTWJhQ@comcast.com...
> "Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> news:EeXZa.523$%i4.403008550@newssvr12.news.prodig y.com
> > "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
> >> Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
> >
> > I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is very
> > loud but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.
>
> Actually, CPU chips run almost totally silently. I've never noticed any of
> the noises one gets with say, large power transistors and ICs in power
amps.
>
> I hear tell its the fans that are often used with CPU chips that make the
> noise...
>
> ;-)
>
>

[Arny Krueger]

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:vji5m6bdnu2v01@corp.supernews.com
> "Arny Krueger" wrote ...
>> That may be true. It may also be true that P4s of a given
>> level of performance dissipate less heat than comparable
>> Athlons. OTOH, those two extra power supply cables with
>> connectors aren't for Athlons, they are for P4s. If P4s use
>> less power, why do they need extra power cables?
>
> The ones I have dealt with are 12V (yellow wire).
> The CPUs (AMD or Intel) don't use 12V, so they are not for the CPUs.

I have a "P4" power supply right here. While there may be Athlon boards that
use these connectors, I've never seen one.

The two *extra* connectors that I never hook up seem to have the following
wires in them:

ground (4 wires)
12 volts (2 wires)
5 volts (2 wires)
3.3 volts (2 wires)

[Eric Griffin]

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1060686487k@trad...
>
> In article <O1SdnYDNCc2b0aWiXTWJkQ@comcast.com> e-tgriff@comcast.net
writes:
>
> > I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons
are
> > necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
> > other things being equal.
>
> It's not the CPU that's noisier, it's the cooling device. If it runs
> hotter for the same functional power, it needs more cooling. The
> cheapest way (remember - this is a computer that people expect to be
> cheap) to increase cooling is to make the small fan (which doesn't use
> much metal and doesn't require fancy bearings) run faster. When it
> runs faster, it makes more noise. But it may not be practical to make
> a fan for a Pentium even smaller, so it can run a little slower.
> Hence, a cheap Athlon computer will probably generate more noise than
> a cheap Pentium.

Agreed on all points - I was operating under the (faulty) assumption that we
were discussing self-built systems. And I figured we all knew that the
actual noise source was the cooling system, not the proc.

--Eric

[Eric Griffin]

"Martin" <langem@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:a2_Za.732581$Vi5.16754580@news1.calgary.shaw. ca...
>
> > I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons
are
> > necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
> > other things being equal.
>
> True
>
> > On my last round of system building, the Zalman flower cooler was the
> > quietest heatsink/fan for either AMD or Intel when paired with a
> > large-diameter, slow-rpm fan. It also cools well. I keep it on a low
> > voltage and cannot hear it when I put my head next to the computer case
of
> > my Athlon XP2600 system.
>
> It will cool adequately as long as there is not a big load on the system.
> That's how I blew my first athlon processor. As long as it wasn't doing
too
> much it cooled good enough. After loading up the system and running for a
> while, sizzle. Fried the CPU. So much for my fancy, high end, quiet,
> heatsink. I would not risk that again. What a pain in the ??? Haul your PC
> to the shop, new CPU, better heatsink, etc.
>
> > How would having a P4 instead of the Athlon be quieter?
>
> Running quiet heatsinks is safer with Pentiums, not necessarily quieter,
> because they run cooler. I think that this is especially important in
> localities where the temperatures are very hot.
>
> The first Athlon I owned eventually became the was the quietest, it's
dead.
>
> Martin

Major bummer! FWIW, I've run Zalmans on Athlon "Thunderbird" 750, XP1600,
XP1800, and XP2600. The temps did rise quite a bit while under the hardest
loads put the CPU under (rendering video in Vegas), but never more than the
low 50's C.

If I were assembling my own system today, I'd give a pretty serious look at
a P4. The price difference between it and the AMD has narrowed
considerably. But for me, the other issues (performance, cooling/noise,
compatibility, etc.) haven't been issues at all.

--Eric

[Mike Rivers]

In article <bhc4mk$i4i$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> CatKiller@nospamplease.Bigfoot.com writes:

> Then there are the water-cooling options. If you use water to transfer the
> heat away from the processor then you can run it through a large radiator on
> top of the case - or anywhere else for that matter.

The son of a friend of mine is a serious gamer/overclocker and he had
a home built water cooled system for a while. It gurgled. Kind of
cute, but still distracting.

> If you want ludicrous amounts of cooling, then there are always Peltier
> coolers than can get your processor running at significantly sub-zero
> temperatures.

Fine, as long as you don't have to then cool the power supply for the
Peltier cooler.

> In my experience, however, the greatest source of noise in a PC isn't the
> heat-sink fan at all, but the fan in the power supply.

In a nicely built PC, this may be true, but in your average
off-the-shelf computer, often the heat sink fans are the noisemakers.
When I was trying to quiet down my Mackie hard disk recorder, stopping
the CPU fan was much more effective than stopping the power supply
fan. Power supply fans are all about the same size and speed (some are
thermostatically controlled) but CPU fans run the gambit. Cheap ones
are small and fast, and their noise spectrum tends to be move toward
the higher frequencies, where our ear is more sensitive, and where we
find the sound to be more annoying or distracting (so it takes less
SPL to make us want to do something about it). This is why a large,
slower CPU fan is frequenty a subjectively effective solution.

> If the sound is still a problem, and you aren't over-clocking or anything to
> generate a large amount of heat, then there are cases available that are
> lined to damp out some of the noise of a PC.

Also, long cables and cable externders are available so you can use
the tried-and-true solution of putting the moisy machine in the
"machine room", out of the way of your ears and your microphones.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)

[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:

> Fine, as long as you don't have to then cool the power supply for the
> Peltier cooler.

No man, it's easy. 5 or 6 muffin fans do the job!!!
:-)

Benj
--
SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!

[Calan]

On a related note, is there any free (or inexpensive) software available for
monitoring system temps in real time? I know I can do it from the BIOS, but
I can't access this info except during start up.

BTW - Thanks for the excellent information as usual guys!

--
Calan

AxMaster Guitar Software
www.jcsautomation.com
www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
Music software and web design/hosting

"Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"

"Eric Griffin" <e-tgriff@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:O1SdnYDNCc2b0aWiXTWJkQ@comcast.com...
> I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons are
> necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
> other things being equal.
>
> On my last round of system building, the Zalman flower cooler was the
> quietest heatsink/fan for either AMD or Intel when paired with a
> large-diameter, slow-rpm fan. It also cools well. I keep it on a low
> voltage and cannot hear it when I put my head next to the computer case of
> my Athlon XP2600 system.
>
> How would having a P4 instead of the Athlon be quieter?
>
> --Eric
>
> "Martin" <langem@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:EBXZa.731434$Vi5.16716455@news1.calgary.shaw. ca...
> > Agreed, Athlons are much louder. I have an Athlon 1.2 ghz and a Pentium
> 2.4
> > ghz. The Athlon sounds like a jet ready for takeoff. The stock Pentium
was
> > far quieter. I then added a Zalman CNPS7000-CU heatsink and a quiet
Zalman
> > power supply to the Pentium. That toned things down even further. Then I
> > built an insulated box to house the computer. Again, lost a few
decibals.
> > It's very quiet now. I say go with the Pentium and then start working on
> > making it quiet. If you keep the computer in another room then it's
> probably
> > not an issue. Mine sits right next to where my gear is.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > "Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> > news:EeXZa.523$%i4.403008550@newssvr12.news.prodig y.com...
> > > "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
> > >
> > > I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is very
> loud
> > > but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Edi Zubovic]

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:25:31 GMT, "Calan"
<calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote:

>On a related note, is there any free (or inexpensive) software available for
>monitoring system temps in real time? I know I can do it from the BIOS, but
>I can't access this info except during start up.
>
>BTW - Thanks for the excellent information as usual guys!

Usually, motherboard manufacturers attach a suitable program on their
support CDs or have it on their pages for download. It is
hardware-dependent ie. must be matched with the monitoring chip to get
the temperatures and voltages accurately. Now I found the one I have
on the CD too fancy and I downloaded a tiny one, the MBProbe, which
works very good from the system tray. It is an quite old freebie but
it costs nothing to check whether it works for you:

http://mbprobe.livewiredev.com/download.html

The most recent one is that 1.31 beta 9. It works good for me with Win
98 SE.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[area242]

I use Sandra by SiSoft. It works nicely for all kinds of info about your
system.

"Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
news:l9x_a.4914$WE6.2126675047@twister2.starband.n et...
> On a related note, is there any free (or inexpensive) software available
for
> monitoring system temps in real time? I know I can do it from the BIOS,
but
> I can't access this info except during start up.
>
> BTW - Thanks for the excellent information as usual guys!
>
> --
> Calan
>
> AxMaster Guitar Software
> www.jcsautomation.com
> www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
> Music software and web design/hosting
>
> "Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"
>
> "Eric Griffin" <e-tgriff@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:O1SdnYDNCc2b0aWiXTWJkQ@comcast.com...
> > I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons
are
> > necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
> > other things being equal.
> >
> > On my last round of system building, the Zalman flower cooler was the
> > quietest heatsink/fan for either AMD or Intel when paired with a
> > large-diameter, slow-rpm fan. It also cools well. I keep it on a low
> > voltage and cannot hear it when I put my head next to the computer case
of
> > my Athlon XP2600 system.
> >
> > How would having a P4 instead of the Athlon be quieter?
> >
> > --Eric
> >
> > "Martin" <langem@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > news:EBXZa.731434$Vi5.16716455@news1.calgary.shaw. ca...
> > > Agreed, Athlons are much louder. I have an Athlon 1.2 ghz and a
Pentium
> > 2.4
> > > ghz. The Athlon sounds like a jet ready for takeoff. The stock Pentium
> was
> > > far quieter. I then added a Zalman CNPS7000-CU heatsink and a quiet
> Zalman
> > > power supply to the Pentium. That toned things down even further. Then
I
> > > built an insulated box to house the computer. Again, lost a few
> decibals.
> > > It's very quiet now. I say go with the Pentium and then start working
on
> > > making it quiet. If you keep the computer in another room then it's
> > probably
> > > not an issue. Mine sits right next to where my gear is.
> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> > >
> > > "Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> > > news:EeXZa.523$%i4.403008550@newssvr12.news.prodig y.com...
> > > > "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > > Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
> > > >
> > > > I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is
very
> > loud
> > > > but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Jay Levitt]

In article <tQx_a.188237$xg5.91544@twister.austin.rr.com>, area242
@REMOVEyahoo.com says...
> I use Sandra by SiSoft. It works nicely for all kinds of info about your
> system.

I dunno... I have seen so many wrong numbers out of many versions of
both Sandra and Motherboard Monitor that I no longer bother trusting (or
even installing) either one. It's a shame, too.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?

[Rick Knepper]

"Bill Lorentzen" <lorentzn@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VGWZa.1946$wg6.739@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> I use nothing but Athlons, and I am very satisfied. They are usually
louder
> boxes though, because they run hotter and require more fanning, if that
will
> be a problem. I keep my 3 boxes in a separate room. I could not possibly
> have them all in the control room.
>
> Bill L


This would be a fan problem.

--
Rick Knepper
MicroComputer Support Services
Knepper Audio
Ft. Worth, TX
817-239-9632
413-215-1267 Fax
PC Tech Support & Equipment Sales
CDR Duplication & Audio Mastering
Recording
http://www.rknepper.com

[Rick Knepper]

I've been building computers commercially since 1992 which doesn't mean
anything other than to say that in my experience, an AMD equivalent to an
Intel chip (specification-wise) has never matched up (performance-wise in
real world situations) in spite of the published bench test comparisons.

This in addition to the fact that I've taken delivery of more than one AMD
chip DOA right out of the box. This has never happened with an Intel. I've
also never had an in service failure from an Intel (of course I only use the
retail box versions and can't speak to the standards of the oem versions).

Admittedly, this experience has not been in the field of DAW.

Maybe a *dollar* equivalent AMD may outperform an Intel but I've been so
disgusted with AMD over the years that I haven't personally made the
comparisons.

I've just treated myself to a new machine:

ASUS P4c800 w/firewire
P4 2.6 gHz 800 FSB
512MB 400 mHz memory
WD Raptor 40 Gig serial ATA 10000 Rpm
WD 120 MB serial ATA 7200 rpm
ASUS 9520 128MB VGA
etc etc

Blindingly fast. Probably a little overkill for Sound Forge <g> but surfing
the net is absolutely a pleasure.


--
Rick Knepper
MicroComputer Support Services
Knepper Audio
Ft. Worth, TX
817-239-9632
413-215-1267 Fax
PC Tech Support & Equipment Sales
CDR Duplication & Audio Mastering
Recording
http://www.rknepper.com

"Eric Griffin" <e-tgriff@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:--2dnctHzKFhhKWiXTWJjg@comcast.com...
> Personally, I'd look for the most stable motherboard/chipset. The proc
> really doesn't matter so much except to zealots.
>
> My lurking career here and on the Cakewalk newsgroups has often led me to
> Scott Reams's advice, which is worth looking for. He builds and uses AMD
> because, in his experience, Athlons have a higher maximum load for DAW use
> than P4s.
>
> I've chosen to use Athlons for my last two machines because they were
about
> $100 cheaper than comparable Intel machines. Then I go and spend the
> leftover $100 on sample libraries and such. :)
>
> --Eric
>
> "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1LTZa.4518$eY3.1991310465@twister2.starband.n et...
> > Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
> >
> > I'll be using Cakewalk Pro Audio (or sonar) and a Duo audio board for
the
> > time being.
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > Calan
> >
> > AxMaster Guitar Software
> > www.jcsautomation.com
> > www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
> > Music software and web design/hosting
> >
> > "Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[pH]

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:56:49 -0400, Jay Levitt <jay+news@jay.fm> wrote:

>In article <tQx_a.188237$xg5.91544@twister.austin.rr.com>, area242
>@REMOVEyahoo.com says...
>> I use Sandra by SiSoft. It works nicely for all kinds of info about your
>> system.
>
>I dunno... I have seen so many wrong numbers out of many versions of
>both Sandra and Motherboard Monitor that I no longer bother trusting (or
>even installing) either one. It's a shame, too.

As far as Sandra... really, I don't know why I bothered to pay for
that (other than the initial "play time", seems like the only time I ran
it was to check for upgrades, and the version I have reached an
"end of the line" point). I suppose it can be useful under some
circumstances (much of the info it provides is stored in the registry,
so... might save some rooting around).

Motherboard Monitor has always seemed relatively accurate (easy
enough to verify voltages and fan RPMs), but it can only report the
info it's given. I run it--rather infrequently--to check on the power supply.

Jeff

http://www.jefftturner.com

[Roger W. Norman]

But I've got you by about ten years, and I disagree. In the time that AMD
chips have been offered they almost always offered at least MOST of what an
intel chip did at a significant savings. When AMD started into the 686
arena they went way beyond intel in their ability to handle math, better
pipelines, etc., without having to recompile one's code to tailor the
performance to the intel chip.

The reason that intel chips almost always work with any of the chipsets is
simply because intel makes chips for the lowest common denominator, which is
the average guy. The new stuff no longer gets snatched up for servers as it
once did, although I saw yesterday where Dell's marketshare is up because of
new server orders. The point being that one simply can't just accept intel
as the chip to use for application specific environments. AMD has
steadfastly given floating and integer performance boosts over intel, so
intel has gravitated towards the lowest common denominator again by
continuing to offer features that are web based, home video base, etc.

AMD has my money and has ever since I purchased their 386-40 and started
recording 16 bit/44.1 kHz stereo. The problem has never been the chip, it's
been the attendant chipsets.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net. See
how far $20 really goes.




"Rick Knepper" <rick@rknepper.com> wrote in message
news:ZtM_a.1653$zG5.23@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com. ..
> I've been building computers commercially since 1992 which doesn't mean
> anything other than to say that in my experience, an AMD equivalent to an
> Intel chip (specification-wise) has never matched up (performance-wise in
> real world situations) in spite of the published bench test comparisons.
>
> This in addition to the fact that I've taken delivery of more than one AMD
> chip DOA right out of the box. This has never happened with an Intel. I've
> also never had an in service failure from an Intel (of course I only use
the
> retail box versions and can't speak to the standards of the oem versions).
>
> Admittedly, this experience has not been in the field of DAW.
>
> Maybe a *dollar* equivalent AMD may outperform an Intel but I've been so
> disgusted with AMD over the years that I haven't personally made the
> comparisons.
>
> I've just treated myself to a new machine:
>
> ASUS P4c800 w/firewire
> P4 2.6 gHz 800 FSB
> 512MB 400 mHz memory
> WD Raptor 40 Gig serial ATA 10000 Rpm
> WD 120 MB serial ATA 7200 rpm
> ASUS 9520 128MB VGA
> etc etc
>
> Blindingly fast. Probably a little overkill for Sound Forge <g> but
surfing
> the net is absolutely a pleasure.
>
>
> --
> Rick Knepper
> MicroComputer Support Services
> Knepper Audio
> Ft. Worth, TX
> 817-239-9632
> 413-215-1267 Fax
> PC Tech Support & Equipment Sales
> CDR Duplication & Audio Mastering
> Recording
> http://www.rknepper.com
>
> "Eric Griffin" <e-tgriff@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:--2dnctHzKFhhKWiXTWJjg@comcast.com...
> > Personally, I'd look for the most stable motherboard/chipset. The proc
> > really doesn't matter so much except to zealots.
> >
> > My lurking career here and on the Cakewalk newsgroups has often led me
to
> > Scott Reams's advice, which is worth looking for. He builds and uses
AMD
> > because, in his experience, Athlons have a higher maximum load for DAW
use
> > than P4s.
> >
> > I've chosen to use Athlons for my last two machines because they were
> about
> > $100 cheaper than comparable Intel machines. Then I go and spend the
> > leftover $100 on sample libraries and such. :)
> >
> > --Eric
> >
> > "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1LTZa.4518$eY3.1991310465@twister2.starband.n et...
> > > Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
> > >
> > > I'll be using Cakewalk Pro Audio (or sonar) and a Duo audio board for
> the
> > > time being.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance!
> > >
> > > Calan
> > >
> > > AxMaster Guitar Software
> > > www.jcsautomation.com
> > > www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
> > > Music software and web design/hosting
> > >
> > > "Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Roger W. Norman]

Right now my hard drive carrier fans are louder than both my PSU fans or the
CPU fan. And yes, they are scheduled to be replaced.

Hey, one thing all of us can do is to remember to open the computer once a
month or so, and blow the interior out with some canned air. Pay attention
to the fan surface areas. I don't care that it's a pain in the butt. It
needs to be done. Those of you that have waited 6 months, turn the machine
off, open it up and blow the damned thing out.

DO NOT use a vacuum cleaner. Air, in a vacuum, creates static electricy and
can kill your computer. If you don't know what you're doing, take it to
someone and learn.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net. See
how far $20 really goes.




"Rick Knepper" <rick@rknepper.com> wrote in message
news:m5M_a.1650$bu5.32@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com. ..
> "Bill Lorentzen" <lorentzn@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:VGWZa.1946$wg6.739@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> > I use nothing but Athlons, and I am very satisfied. They are usually
> louder
> > boxes though, because they run hotter and require more fanning, if that
> will
> > be a problem. I keep my 3 boxes in a separate room. I could not possibly
> > have them all in the control room.
> >
> > Bill L
>
>
> This would be a fan problem.
>
> --
> Rick Knepper
> MicroComputer Support Services
> Knepper Audio
> Ft. Worth, TX
> 817-239-9632
> 413-215-1267 Fax
> PC Tech Support & Equipment Sales
> CDR Duplication & Audio Mastering
> Recording
> http://www.rknepper.com
>
>

[GagMe@aol.com]

"Arny Krueger" wrote:
>...If P4s use less power, why do they need extra power cables?

From Intel:
"The new +12VDC connector lies near the processor's DC-to-DC converter and
voltage regulators, which affords higher power conversion and transmission
efficiencies and future platform flexibility."

Addionally, the -5V for ISA boards is no longer needed.

For more details--
http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/atx/ATX12V_1_3dg.pdf

HTH