OT: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

[Odin]

Mind the "OT" in the header and don't read any further if
you're gonna whine about lack of guitar content.

Setting: Dallas, Texas. Dallas PD hired their first
African-American chief of police in 1999. Chief Terrell
Bolton was "skip promoted" while an officer. What that
means is that he was a sergeant and got promoted straight to
assistant chief, passing the ranks of lieutenant, captain
and deputy chief in the process. He has absolutely no
skills as a police administrator.

The city of Dallas has the highest crime rate per capita in
the USA for 6 years in a row (that's every year the new
chief has been in office). But the chief claims that "crime
is down" because the *numbers* of crimes committed are down
versus ten years ago. What he seems unable to understand is
that numbers of crimes are down nationwide, but that the
crime *rate* is higher than every other city in the US.
This chief has been in the middle of one boondoggle after
another. The Dallas County DA's office won't even talk to
him (they think he's a joke), he kicked the FBI out of the
interagency programs with the DPD because the FBI had
investigated him before he was appointed chief, the police
unions (except, of course, the black union) think he's a
joke, department morale is down, crime is up, etc.

All in the name of diversity.

And now a story about how well the reverse discrimination
(affirmative action) hiring program is working for the
Dallas Police Department. FYI, affirmative action has sent
droves of veteran officers to the suburbs and deflected
droves of qualified, but white, candidates to the suburbs.
Suburban police departments are getting the cream while DPD
hires the dregs.

In June of 2000, Derrick Evans, a black man, applied to the
Dallas police department. He stated on his application that
he had never been arrested. He was admitted to the academy.
While in the academy the DPD learned that he had been
arrested for public intoxication. Lying on an application
is grounds for immediate dismissal from the academy, and the
academy commanders recommended that he be dismissed. A
Hispanic commander under the chief and the black chief
overruled and Evans was allowed to remain in the academy.

As a police recruit, while Evans was still in the academy
his name came up as a suspect in a murder investigation (the
victim was an acquaintance of the recruit's girlfriend and
the recruit was placed in the area having a confrontation
with the victim the night of the murder). Homicide
investigators and internal affairs investigators had recruit
Evans take a polygraph exam (which is standard procedure for
any recruit or officer under investigation) and they
questioned him about the murder. To the question "Did you
kill Simuel Huey, Jr." the officer answered "No" and his
answer was found to be "not truthful". However, there was
no physical evidence to charge the recruit with in the
murder. Investigators recommended that the recruit be
terminated. Chief Bolton's staff overruled and the recruit
was allowed to remain and graduate from the academy. His
failed polygraph was common knowledge in the department, a
real morale booster for all of the good officers in the
department.

A few weeks ago officer Evans' stepdaughter came home and
said that some kids had beat her up. Rather than call a
marked unit to meet him there officer Evans rounded up 15
relatives, armed with baseball bats and screwdrivers, and
drove to the scene of the alleged fight. Upon arrival,
officer Evans, wearing baggy pants, a muscle shirt and his
badge around his neck and walking with his pistol in his
hand, confronted the crowd. The situation escalated.
Officer Evans claims that a 19 year old pointed a gun at him
so he fired at the 19 year old several times, striking him
once.

A few days ago the Dallas Morning News learned that in
addition to his arrest for being drunk and his failing a
polygraph that asked him if he committed murder, officer
Evans was twice the subject of an emergency restraining
order placed on him by a judge when his ex-wife sought
relief from his assaults. He failed to mention this in is
application according to police officials, and the Dallas
police would have the public believe that they were unable
to find out this information that the DMN discovered using
only public records. When the DMN confronted the chief with
this info the chief ordered the officer into an IA meeting,
which lasted 14 hours and cost the taxpayers thousands, and
fired the officer at 6:30 on Saturday. The chief only fired
the officer because the paper threatened to run the story
and the chief wanted to fire the officer before the story
ran. They claim that they fired him for displaying his
weapon in a manner that would alarm the public.

Now the local papers, the police, the city council, the
"community leaders", just about everyone in Dallas is asking
"how could this happen"? Yet nobody will say the words
"affirmative action". The DPD had numerous chances to fire
this guy and had damn good reasons every time. Why didn't
they fire him? The DPD is turning away white applicants
while breaking the rules to retain black applicants who have
an arrest history and fail polygraphs about murdering
people.

Celebrate diversity.

[gozy]

I object to your use of the term "reverse discrimination". I know you're
referring to affirmative action, but discrimination is discrimination no
matter why it's done, who benefits or who does not.

If it's wrong, it's always wrong.

Exceptions: None.

[Odin]

"gozy" <gozy@hotmail.comNOSPAM> wrote in message

> I object to your use of the term "reverse discrimination".
I know you're
> referring to affirmative action, but discrimination is
discrimination no
> matter why it's done, who benefits or who does not.
>
> If it's wrong, it's always wrong.
>
> Exceptions: None.

Agreed. Except when it discriminates against whites.
Didn't you get the memo? White males are the devil and are
fair game for discrimination.

[volantus4]

The unsound and emotional arguments for "reverse discrimination"
against caucasian males are in actuality, arguments against equality
for minorities and women rather than for the same because such
arguments lack the rationality, and contain the emotional rhetoric
that identifies groups that lack the capacity for rational judgement
and ethical behavior that is identified with being a caucasian male.
No true equality between the races or the two genders can exist unless
there is equality in all respects something which the Federal and
State governments reject.I have personally experienced overt and
covert forms of discrimination (because of my being a caucasian male)
while working and/or applying for positions for the city and/or county
of Dallas, Texas. This same type of reverse discrimination appears to
me, as the author of the original post stated, to be the norm in
Dallas City government (and in Dallas County government also in my
opinion)(and in Texas State Government in my opinion).

[gozy]

> Didn't you get the memo? White males are the devil and are
> fair game for discrimination.
>
>

Oh! No, I missed that one. My error.

['nuther Bob]

On 13 Aug 2003 17:23:45 -0700, misters@swbell.net (volantus4) wrote:

>The unsound and emotional arguments for "reverse discrimination"
>against caucasian males are in actuality, arguments against equality
>for minorities and women rather than for the same because such
>arguments lack the rationality, and contain the emotional rhetoric
>that identifies groups that lack the capacity for rational judgement
>and ethical behavior that is identified with being a caucasian male.

Warning... warning... danger Will Robinson, non-sensical run-on
sentence. What'd he say ?

>No true equality between the races or the two genders can exist unless
>there is equality in all respects something which the Federal and
>State governments reject.

Oh, OK, that was understandable. I agree. Equality is equality. For
a while there may have been a need to give an advantage to those
who had been long discriminated against. I think that need has
passed.

>I have personally experienced overt and
>covert forms of discrimination (because of my being a caucasian male)
>while working and/or applying for positions for the city and/or county
>of Dallas, Texas.

We all have our axe to grind. Just learn to hate the people who
screwed you and use that hate as a mechanism of motivation.
Works for me :-)

Bob

[ryanm]

"volantus4" <misters@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:deb969ed.0308131623.6b63addc@posting.google.c om...
> The unsound and emotional arguments for "reverse discrimination"
> against caucasian males are in actuality, arguments against equality
> for minorities and women rather than for the same because such
> arguments lack the rationality, and contain the emotional rhetoric
> that identifies groups that lack the capacity for rational judgement
> and ethical behavior that is identified with being a caucasian male.
> No true equality between the races or the two genders can exist unless
> there is equality in all respects something which the Federal and
> State governments reject.I have personally experienced overt and
> covert forms of discrimination (because of my being a caucasian male)
> while working and/or applying for positions for the city and/or county
> of Dallas, Texas. This same type of reverse discrimination appears to
> me, as the author of the original post stated, to be the norm in
> Dallas City government (and in Dallas County government also in my
> opinion)(and in Texas State Government in my opinion).
>
I don't know what you've experienced, but I have found that the white
male between the ages of 18-45 with no children are the most discriminated
against group by city and state governments as well as other private
programs. For example, an 18 year old white male cannot get any scholarships
or grants for college money without competing against everyone else. The
problem with that is that almost every other racial, gender, or ethnic group
has a scholarship program in which they only have to compete with others of
the same group. If I were to fund a scholarship for poor white kids I would
be called a racist, however there are scholarships for blacks, asians,
women, etc, where the primary requirements are based on those lines rather
than scholastic performance. Additionally, several years ago a friend and I
were working at the same company, were the same age, and were in the same
ethnic group, but I was able to get significantly better life and health
insurance policies for the same cost because I had children. Years before,
right after my first child was born, I was unemployed for a while. I tried
to get my child on Medicade so that she could see a doctor, but they turned
me down. Meanwhile, I knew a 35 year old hispanic guy who had a job and no
children at the same time but was enrolled in Medicade as well as receiving
food stamps. The woman at the medicade office told me that if I could be
classified as any other ethnic group than caucasian I would've been able to
get my kid on medicade.

I'm all about giving some people help if they need it, but it had gotten
ridiculous.

ryanm

[Odin]

"volantus4" <misters@swbell.net> wrote in message

> I have personally experienced overt and
> covert forms of discrimination (because of my being a caucasian male)
> while working and/or applying for positions for the city and/or county
> of Dallas, Texas. This same type of reverse discrimination appears to
> me, as the author of the original post stated, to be the norm in
> Dallas City government (and in Dallas County government also in my
> opinion)(and in Texas State Government in my opinion).

And Dallas wonders why crime is up, the tax base is down and nobody wants
to live there. The entire "leadership", and I use that term loosely, in
Dallas is a joke. They don't have the slightest clue about *anything*.
Dallas is an exercise in political correctness that went bad a long time
ago.

Here's another tidbit for anyone thinking about moving to Dallas.

Al Lipscomb, the venerable "civil rights leader" of Dallas (who has a
felony conviction for selling drugs way back in the day) was convicted of
federal bribery charges. He accepted thousands of dollars from the owner
of the biggest taxi company in Dallas in exchange for favorable votes for
cab companies. He doesn't deny this. When he was prosecuted he blamed it
on racism.

But wait, it gets better. It seems that a current city council member has
nominated Al Lipscomb to sit on the Police Citizens Review Board that hears
civilian complaints on police and makes recommendations to the chief.
Here's a guy with felony convictions, who has an extreme dislike for the
Dallas Police, and a city councilman wants him to sit in judgment of the
police. This should instill great confidence in the police that they are
getting a fair and just hearing from the review board. As long as they
don't mind a convicted felon (that they investigated) sitting on the board.
Who comes up with this ****?

Steer clear of the city of Dallas unless you want to live in a circus that
plays with your money and gives you nothing in return.

[Steve]

>I object to your use of the term "reverse discrimination". I know you're
>referring to affirmative action, but discrimination is discrimination no
>matter why it's done, who benefits or who does not.
>
>If it's wrong, it's always wrong.
>
>Exceptions: None.
>

Really? See below....

==========================
To ensure we Americans never offend anyone -- particularly fanatics intent on
killing us -- airport screeners are not allowed to profile people of Muslim
Decent. They will, however, continue to check pilots with proper
identification, Secret Service agents who are members of the President's
security detail, and 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips.

Let's pause a moment and take the following test...

In 1972, 11 Israeli athletes were killed at the Munich Olympics by:

(a) Grandma Moses;
(b) The night cleaning crew at Rockefeller Center;
(c) Invaders from Mars; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.
___________________________________


In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:

(a) Norwegians from the Lichen Herbarium of the University of Oslo;
(b) Elvis;
(c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.
___________________________________


In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up and 243
Marines were killed by:

(a) A Dominos pizza delivery boy who was "stiffed" on a tip;
(b) Crazed feminists complaining that having to throw a grenade
beyond its own burst radius in basic training was an unfair and sexist
job requirement;
(c) Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.
____________________________________


In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed and 259 people on the plane and
11 people on the ground were killed by:

(a) Luca Brazzi, for not being given a part in "Godfather 2";
(b) The Tooth Fairy;
(c) Butch and Sundance, who had a few sticks of dynamite
left over from their train robbery;
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.
_________________________________________


In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed and 6 people were killed
by:

(a) The entire cast of "Cats";
(b) Martha Stewart;
(c) Cheese-crazed tourists from Wisconsin; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.
_____________________________________


In 1995, Khobar Towers, a military barracks in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia,
was bombed and 19 military were killed by:

(a) Rodney Dangerfield because he never gets any respect;
(b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems;
(c) Jane Fonda (well, maybe); or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.
_______________________________________


In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania a were bombed and
223 people were killed by:

(a) Mr. Rogers;
(b) Chelsea Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems;
(c) The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain:
"Mustapha the Merciless"; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.
___________________________________________


In Dec 2000, the U.S.S. Cole was bombed and 17 Navy personnel were
killed by:

(a) Pee Wee Herman;
(b) The Little Old Lady from Pasadena while experiencing a
severe case of hot flashes during menopause;
(c) Brittany Spears, Christina Aguilera, N'Sync, and the Backstreet Boys; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.
____________________________________


On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked, over 3,000 people were
killed and the WTC was destroyed along with the Pentagon
being damaged by:

(a) Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd.
(b) The US Supreme Court,
(c) Barney; or
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.
_________________________________________


Hmmm...nope, ain't no patterns here. Darned if I know why we should
ever even think about profiling.

=======================


SEFSTRAT
solo webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html
band webpage: www.timebanditsrock.com

[Steve]

<<The unsound and emotional arguments for "reverse discrimination"
against caucasian males are in actuality, arguments against equality
for minorities and women rather than for the same because such
arguments lack the rationality, and contain the emotional rhetoric
that identifies groups that lack the capacity for rational judgement
and ethical behavior that is identified with being a caucasian male.>>

Fortunately, the Bakke Court disagreed with your rationale.


SEFSTRAT
solo webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html
band webpage: www.timebanditsrock.com

['nuther Bob]

On 14 Aug 2003 13:30:44 GMT, sefstrat@aol.comnospam (Steve) wrote:

><<The unsound and emotional arguments for "reverse discrimination"
>against caucasian males are in actuality, arguments against equality
>for minorities and women rather than for the same because such
>arguments lack the rationality, and contain the emotional rhetoric
>that identifies groups that lack the capacity for rational judgement
>and ethical behavior that is identified with being a caucasian male.>>
>
>Fortunately, the Bakke Court disagreed with your rationale.
>
>
The who did what now ?

Bob

[Steve]

<<On 14 Aug 2003 13:30:44 GMT, sefstrat@aol.comnospam (Steve) wrote:

><<The unsound and emotional arguments for "reverse discrimination"
>against caucasian males are in actuality, arguments against equality
>for minorities and women rather than for the same because such
>arguments lack the rationality, and contain the emotional rhetoric
>that identifies groups that lack the capacity for rational judgement
>and ethical behavior that is identified with being a caucasian male.>>
>
>Fortunately, the Bakke Court disagreed with your rationale.
>
>
The who did what now ?

Bob >>

Alan Bakke successfully argued that he'd been denied admission to medical
school because he was discriminated against as a white male. The case was
ultimately decided in his favor by the US Supreme Court. Famous case.

Sidelight: by the time the Supreme Court heard and decided the matter, Bakke
had already graduated from another medical school.


SEFSTRAT
solo webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html
band webpage: www.timebanditsrock.com

[Odin]

"Steve" <sefstrat@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

> Alan Bakke successfully argued that he'd been denied
admission to medical
> school because he was discriminated against as a white
male. The case was
> ultimately decided in his favor by the US Supreme Court.
Famous case.
>
> Sidelight: by the time the Supreme Court heard and
decided the matter, Bakke
> had already graduated from another medical school.

Nobody ever accused the wheels of justice of being speedy.

['nuther Bob]

On 14 Aug 2003 15:30:38 GMT, sefstrat@aol.comnospam (Steve) wrote:

><<On 14 Aug 2003 13:30:44 GMT, sefstrat@aol.comnospam (Steve) wrote:
>
>><<The unsound and emotional arguments for "reverse discrimination"
>>against caucasian males are in actuality, arguments against equality
>>for minorities and women rather than for the same because such
>>arguments lack the rationality, and contain the emotional rhetoric
>>that identifies groups that lack the capacity for rational judgement
>>and ethical behavior that is identified with being a caucasian male.>>
>>
>>Fortunately, the Bakke Court disagreed with your rationale.
>>
>>
>The who did what now ?
>
>Bob >>
>
>Alan Bakke successfully argued that he'd been denied admission to medical
>school because he was discriminated against as a white male. The case was
>ultimately decided in his favor by the US Supreme Court. Famous case.
>

OK... but I think the other poster was arguing against AA, not for it.
I'll be the first to admit that his one sentence paragraph was at best
confusing. So, the Bakke Court agreed with his rationale.

Bob

[gozy]

Profiling is not discrimination. If the police are searching for a left
handed person, they are not discriminating against left handed people, they
are resonably limiting their search, which is what you illustrate.

My point is that affirmative action is discrimination, pure and simple.

[Grant]

'nuther Bob wrote:

>>No true equality between the races or the two genders can exist unless
>>there is equality in all respects something which the Federal and
>>State governments reject.
>
>
> Oh, OK, that was understandable. I agree. Equality is equality. For
> a while there may have been a need to give an advantage to those
> who had been long discriminated against. I think that need has
> passed.


I think that RACE is no longer the issue. It's economic/cultural
background. I know people who are members of "traditionally
disadvantaged" racial minorities who are well-educated and successful
members of the middle class. For these people, race appears to create
no serious barriers, at least in the region where I live. There is no
apparent reason, to my eye at least, why their children should be
treated differently than white middle class kids for school admissions
and similar purposes. It's also interesting that in many of these
cases, the persons in question weren't born in the U.S. but immigrated
from a country where they were in the majority, and where they were
already a member of at least the middle class.

On the other hand, I think that people born and raised in one of our
worse ghettos (or maybe a run down trailer park in Kentucky) is going
have trouble gaining entry to the middle class if he/she is Caucasian.

In short, my problem with *racial* affirmative action is that race is
only *correlated* with being born and raised under very difficult
circumstances, it is not a one-to-one relationship. In fact, it's a
kind of blatant racism in the sense that it says, "if you have dark
skin, then we're going to help you whether you need it or not, and if
you're white, you're not going to get any help even if you need it."

If it were up to me, affirmative action programs would be refocused so
that economic and cultural tests (e.g., has anyone in this kid's family
ever graduated from high school?) are utilized rather than tests based
on physiological race.

Just my $0.02

[Grant]

Grant wrote:
>> On the other hand, I think that people born and raised in one of our
> worse ghettos (or maybe a run down trailer park in Kentucky) is going
> have trouble gaining entry to the middle class if he/she is Caucasian.
^^^
"even if" is what I meant to say

[Jonny Durango]

It's pretty comvenient to blame all of Dallas's crime problem on the
appointment of one Chief....I'm not a big fan of affirmative action either
(for the exact reason you convey here), but your committing an argumentative
fallacy by pointing out one injustive and blaming the whole problem on that
one thing without any evidence to back up your claim (the Evans case doesn't
show that Bolton is responsible for the higher crime rate)....I'm sure it is
much more complex.

--

J. Durango

"The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today (is) my own
government" - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.


"Odin" <res0jmoj@verizon.net> wrote in message news:3f396101@shknews01...
> Mind the "OT" in the header and don't read any further if
> you're gonna whine about lack of guitar content.
>
> Setting: Dallas, Texas. Dallas PD hired their first
> African-American chief of police in 1999. Chief Terrell
> Bolton was "skip promoted" while an officer. What that
> means is that he was a sergeant and got promoted straight to
> assistant chief, passing the ranks of lieutenant, captain
> and deputy chief in the process. He has absolutely no
> skills as a police administrator.
>
> The city of Dallas has the highest crime rate per capita in
> the USA for 6 years in a row (that's every year the new
> chief has been in office). But the chief claims that "crime
> is down" because the *numbers* of crimes committed are down
> versus ten years ago. What he seems unable to understand is
> that numbers of crimes are down nationwide, but that the
> crime *rate* is higher than every other city in the US.
> This chief has been in the middle of one boondoggle after
> another. The Dallas County DA's office won't even talk to
> him (they think he's a joke), he kicked the FBI out of the
> interagency programs with the DPD because the FBI had
> investigated him before he was appointed chief, the police
> unions (except, of course, the black union) think he's a
> joke, department morale is down, crime is up, etc.
>
> All in the name of diversity.
>
> And now a story about how well the reverse discrimination
> (affirmative action) hiring program is working for the
> Dallas Police Department. FYI, affirmative action has sent
> droves of veteran officers to the suburbs and deflected
> droves of qualified, but white, candidates to the suburbs.
> Suburban police departments are getting the cream while DPD
> hires the dregs.
>
> In June of 2000, Derrick Evans, a black man, applied to the
> Dallas police department. He stated on his application that
> he had never been arrested. He was admitted to the academy.
> While in the academy the DPD learned that he had been
> arrested for public intoxication. Lying on an application
> is grounds for immediate dismissal from the academy, and the
> academy commanders recommended that he be dismissed. A
> Hispanic commander under the chief and the black chief
> overruled and Evans was allowed to remain in the academy.
>
> As a police recruit, while Evans was still in the academy
> his name came up as a suspect in a murder investigation (the
> victim was an acquaintance of the recruit's girlfriend and
> the recruit was placed in the area having a confrontation
> with the victim the night of the murder). Homicide
> investigators and internal affairs investigators had recruit
> Evans take a polygraph exam (which is standard procedure for
> any recruit or officer under investigation) and they
> questioned him about the murder. To the question "Did you
> kill Simuel Huey, Jr." the officer answered "No" and his
> answer was found to be "not truthful". However, there was
> no physical evidence to charge the recruit with in the
> murder. Investigators recommended that the recruit be
> terminated. Chief Bolton's staff overruled and the recruit
> was allowed to remain and graduate from the academy. His
> failed polygraph was common knowledge in the department, a
> real morale booster for all of the good officers in the
> department.
>
> A few weeks ago officer Evans' stepdaughter came home and
> said that some kids had beat her up. Rather than call a
> marked unit to meet him there officer Evans rounded up 15
> relatives, armed with baseball bats and screwdrivers, and
> drove to the scene of the alleged fight. Upon arrival,
> officer Evans, wearing baggy pants, a muscle shirt and his
> badge around his neck and walking with his pistol in his
> hand, confronted the crowd. The situation escalated.
> Officer Evans claims that a 19 year old pointed a gun at him
> so he fired at the 19 year old several times, striking him
> once.
>
> A few days ago the Dallas Morning News learned that in
> addition to his arrest for being drunk and his failing a
> polygraph that asked him if he committed murder, officer
> Evans was twice the subject of an emergency restraining
> order placed on him by a judge when his ex-wife sought
> relief from his assaults. He failed to mention this in is
> application according to police officials, and the Dallas
> police would have the public believe that they were unable
> to find out this information that the DMN discovered using
> only public records. When the DMN confronted the chief with
> this info the chief ordered the officer into an IA meeting,
> which lasted 14 hours and cost the taxpayers thousands, and
> fired the officer at 6:30 on Saturday. The chief only fired
> the officer because the paper threatened to run the story
> and the chief wanted to fire the officer before the story
> ran. They claim that they fired him for displaying his
> weapon in a manner that would alarm the public.
>
> Now the local papers, the police, the city council, the
> "community leaders", just about everyone in Dallas is asking
> "how could this happen"? Yet nobody will say the words
> "affirmative action". The DPD had numerous chances to fire
> this guy and had damn good reasons every time. Why didn't
> they fire him? The DPD is turning away white applicants
> while breaking the rules to retain black applicants who have
> an arrest history and fail polygraphs about murdering
> people.
>
> Celebrate diversity.
>
>
>

[Reign_Of_Error]

"Odin" <res0jmoj@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<3f3bbe24@shknews01>...
> "Steve" <sefstrat@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
>
> > Alan Bakke successfully argued that he'd been denied
> admission to medical
> > school because he was discriminated against as a white
> male. The case was
> > ultimately decided in his favor by the US Supreme Court.
> Famous case.
> >
> > Sidelight: by the time the Supreme Court heard and
> decided the matter, Bakke
> > had already graduated from another medical school.
>
> Nobody ever accused the wheels of justice of being speedy.

Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man" ****
getting a little bit old and tired? Do you guys really think all this
bull**** you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
issues of race and affirmative action? Odin, your guitar playing sucks
ass (yes, I've heard your clips) and your attempts at social
commentary are pathetic. **** off already.

[Odin]

"gozy" <gozy@hotmail.comNOSPAM> wrote in message

> Profiling is not discrimination. If the police are searching for a left
> handed person, they are not discriminating against left handed people,
they
> are resonably limiting their search, which is what you illustrate.

You're right, but racial profiling is looking for suspects without knowing
that the suspect are of a certain race, but simply looking closely at the
race that has most often committed like crimes. It's a biased means of
investigation that subjects innocent people to suspicion, but it doesn't
violate any civil rights and it is based in sound logic.


> My point is that affirmative action is discrimination, pure and simple.

Correct.

[Odin]

"Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man" ****
> getting a little bit old and tired?

Isn't the concept of "my grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's
grandfatehr was a slave so I deserve special treatment and reparations"
getting a little bit old and tired?


> Do you guys really think all this
> bull**** you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
> issues of race and affirmative action?

No, everyone knows that affirmative action is discrimination, plain and
simple.


> Odin, your guitar playing sucks
> ass (yes, I've heard your clips)

That's true, but I'm better than you, so go figure.


> and your attempts at social
> commentary are pathetic.

Translation: The truth hurts.


> **** off already.

Don't beg, it makes you look as cheap as your sister.

[Odin]

"Jonny Durango" <jonnydurango1nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message

> It's pretty comvenient to blame all of Dallas's crime problem on the
> appointment of one Chief....I'm not a big fan of affirmative action
either
> (for the exact reason you convey here), but your committing an
argumentative
> fallacy by pointing out one injustive and blaming the whole problem on
that
> one thing without any evidence to back up your claim (the Evans case
doesn't
> show that Bolton is responsible for the higher crime rate)....I'm sure it
is
> much more complex.

By no means am I saying that chief Bolton is *solely* responsible for the
highest crime rate in the nation because he is black or because he is the
product of affirmative actions. The actual responsibility for the crime
rate in Dallas rests with the criminals. But chief Bolton is solely
responsible for the ways that the DPD prevents and fights crime. He has
chosen to alienate the department from outside resources (Dallas County
DA's office, FBI, etc...), he has chosen to take actions that lower morale,
he has chosen to take officers from investigative units to put them in
patrol which lowers the solvency rate of crimes (yet his increased patrols
have not resulted in an lower crime rate) and he basically has no idea how
to run a 3000 member police force. Put it this way, Bolton's latest claim
to fame, in the city with the highest crime rate in the nation, is to have
dozens of officers conduct "rolling road blocks" in Dallas rush hour
traffic on the freeways. He gets 5 or 6 patrol cars to drive side by side
at 55mph all over the highways in the morning so that people are unable to
speed. The sheer amount of officers and cars that this requires
(especially when done in several locations at once) is ridiculous, and
while he poses for the cameras and talks about rolling road blocks the
crime rate soars. Bottom line, the guy is responsible for Dallas having
the highest crime rate in the nation.

[Atlas]

x-no-archive: yes

On 14 Aug 2003 19:44:16 -0700, reign_of_error@hotmail.com
(Reign_Of_Error) wrote:

>Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man" ****
>getting a little bit old and tired?

Perhaps. But it's nowhere near as dumb a concept as is
affirmative action.

>Do you guys really think all this
>bull**** you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
>issues of race and affirmative action?

Nice sentence structure.

>Odin, your guitar playing sucks
>ass (yes, I've heard your clips)

I've heard Odin's clips. He's not too bad at all. There are
some really fine players in this group (my fav. being Andy Most). And
there are some real blowhards. Odin's not as good as Andy...(who
is?), but his playing certainly doesn't suck ass.

>and your attempts at social
>commentary are pathetic.

You don't agree with his philosophies. Fine. You're
certainly entitled to your whiny-ass, intellectually impoverished
opinion. ;)

>**** off already.

Nice.


Atlas


P.S. Your online handle "Reign of Error" is absolutely perfect for a
liberal.

[ryanm]

"Grant" <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:bhh9tv$cd0$1@news.doit.wisc.edu...
>
> I think that RACE is no longer the issue. It's economic/cultural
> background. I know people who are members of "traditionally
> disadvantaged" racial minorities who are well-educated and successful
> members of the middle class. For these people, race appears to create
> no serious barriers, at least in the region where I live. There is no
> apparent reason, to my eye at least, why their children should be
> treated differently than white middle class kids for school admissions
> and similar purposes. It's also interesting that in many of these
> cases, the persons in question weren't born in the U.S. but immigrated
> from a country where they were in the majority, and where they were
> already a member of at least the middle class.
>
> On the other hand, I think that people born and raised in one of our
> worse ghettos (or maybe a run down trailer park in Kentucky) is going
> have trouble gaining entry to the middle class if he/she is Caucasian.
>
> In short, my problem with *racial* affirmative action is that race is
> only *correlated* with being born and raised under very difficult
> circumstances, it is not a one-to-one relationship. In fact, it's a
> kind of blatant racism in the sense that it says, "if you have dark
> skin, then we're going to help you whether you need it or not, and if
> you're white, you're not going to get any help even if you need it."
>
> If it were up to me, affirmative action programs would be refocused so
> that economic and cultural tests (e.g., has anyone in this kid's family
> ever graduated from high school?) are utilized rather than tests based
> on physiological race.
>
Well stated.

ryanm

['nuther Bob]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 04:00:33 GMT, "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net>
wrote:


>It's a biased means of
>investigation that subjects innocent people to suspicion, but it doesn't
>violate any civil rights and it is based in sound logic.

I like to be careful to avoid falling into the pit with Ed Meese, who
once said in regards to the Constitutional rights of our citizens: "If
they hadn't done something wrong, they wouldn't be suspects".

That said, I agree with what you say as applied to non-US citizens. If
you are in our country or boarding a plan for our country and are not
a US citizen, then you have *no* rights under the Constitution. While
I agree that you get basic human rights and reasonable treatment, I
don't think that "profiling" non-citizens and asking a few extra
questions or doing extra background checks is in any way a violation
of the Constitution. No how, no way.

Bob

[Reign_Of_Error]

"Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> wrote in message news:<n%Y_a.11804$aW3.2852@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...

Wow, is this the best you can do? You are more even more impotent than
I ever suspected. A "your sister" joke? I thought your comments were
half-witted enough before the "your sister" joke.

**** man, you are so incredibly lame. Do you derive some sort of
perverse pleasure out of looking like a total fool in front of your
peers? Do you even realize it?

> "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man" ****
> > getting a little bit old and tired?
>
> Isn't the concept of "my grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's
> grandfatehr was a slave so I deserve special treatment and reparations"
> getting a little bit old and tired?
>
>
> > Do you guys really think all this
> > bull**** you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
> > issues of race and affirmative action?
>
> No, everyone knows that affirmative action is discrimination, plain and
> simple.
>
>
> > Odin, your guitar playing sucks
> > ass (yes, I've heard your clips)
>
> That's true, but I'm better than you, so go figure.
>
>
> > and your attempts at social
> > commentary are pathetic.
>
> Translation: The truth hurts.
>
>
> > **** off already.
>
> Don't beg, it makes you look as cheap as your sister.

['nuther Bob]

On 15 Aug 2003 14:27:14 -0700, reign_of_error@hotmail.com
(Reign_Of_Error) wrote:


>**** man, you are so incredibly lame. Do you derive some sort of
>perverse pleasure out of looking like a total fool in front of your
>peers? Do you even realize it?

Is this the best troll you can do ? Create a new hotmail account and
post from Google ? You need to go back to troll school if you want to
hang with the professional trolls my friend. Now scat, you've been
spanked.

Bob

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

As "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> so eloquently put:
[] "gozy" <gozy@hotmail.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
[]
[] > Profiling is not discrimination. If the police are searching for a left
[] > handed person, they are not discriminating against left handed people,
[] they
[] > are resonably limiting their search, which is what you illustrate.
[]
[] You're right, but racial profiling is looking for suspects without knowing
[] that the suspect are of a certain race, but simply looking closely at the
[] race that has most often committed like crimes.

Good definition of racial discrimination.

[] It's a biased means of
[] investigation that subjects innocent people to suspicion, but it doesn't
[] violate any civil rights and it is based in sound logic.

But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.

Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.

Chris

----
"...there would have been no Holdsworth or
Hendrix without the genius of Boxcar Willie"
-- Mark Garvin
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

As Grant <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> so eloquently put:
[] 'nuther Bob wrote:
[] >
[] > Oh, OK, that was understandable. I agree. Equality is equality. For
[] > a while there may have been a need to give an advantage to those
[] > who had been long discriminated against. I think that need has
[] > passed.
[]
[]
[] I think that RACE is no longer the issue. It's economic/cultural
[] background. I know people who are members of "traditionally
[] disadvantaged" racial minorities who are well-educated and successful
[] members of the middle class. For these people, race appears to create
[] no serious barriers, at least in the region where I live.

Sure, there are "examples". This is in no way evidence that racial
bias no longer exists.

[] There is no
[] apparent reason, to my eye at least, why their children should be
[] treated differently than white middle class kids for school admissions
[] and similar purposes.

And yet, it still occurs.

[] It's also interesting that in many of these
[] cases, the persons in question weren't born in the U.S. but immigrated
[] from a country where they were in the majority, and where they were
[] already a member of at least the middle class.

How many? Are you really prepared to show that few US born citizens
are not exposed to racial bias?

[] On the other hand, I think that people born and raised in one of our
[] worse ghettos (or maybe a run down trailer park in Kentucky) is going
[] have trouble gaining entry to the middle class if he/she is Caucasian.

Being born into a poverty state does not equate to racial bias.
They're two totally different issues.

[] In short, my problem with *racial* affirmative action is that race is
[] only *correlated* with being born and raised under very difficult
[] circumstances, it is not a one-to-one relationship. In fact, it's a
[] kind of blatant racism in the sense that it says, "if you have dark
[] skin, then we're going to help you whether you need it or not, and if
[] you're white, you're not going to get any help even if you need it."

I'm am commenting here only on your comments of racial bias in
general. Affirmative action is a political issue. You need to separate
them, to be fair.

[] If it were up to me, affirmative action programs would be refocused so
[] that economic and cultural tests (e.g., has anyone in this kid's family
[] ever graduated from high school?) are utilized rather than tests based
[] on physiological race.

That would be a different program, altogether.

----
"...there would have been no Holdsworth or
Hendrix without the genius of Boxcar Willie"
-- Mark Garvin
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]

[Les Cargill]

Not A Speck Of Cereal wrote:
>
> As "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> so eloquently put:
> [] "gozy" <gozy@hotmail.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
> []
> [] > Profiling is not discrimination. If the police are searching for a left
> [] > handed person, they are not discriminating against left handed people,
> [] they
> [] > are resonably limiting their search, which is what you illustrate.
> []
> [] You're right, but racial profiling is looking for suspects without knowing
> [] that the suspect are of a certain race, but simply looking closely at the
> [] race that has most often committed like crimes.
>
> Good definition of racial discrimination.
>
> [] It's a biased means of
> [] investigation that subjects innocent people to suspicion, but it doesn't
> [] violate any civil rights and it is based in sound logic.
>
> But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
> Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
> high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.
>

That could be a marketing ploy. Y'know, using the "PARENTS
ADVISORY" sticker as an eye catcher?

Since the principal market for rap is suburban melanin-deprived male
youngsters, I rather doubt it indicates anything of a serious
racial nature. Or is Eminem just that darned good?


> Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
> rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.
>

Or it might just be really clever packaging. One never knows, these
days.

> Chris
>
> ----
> "...there would have been no Holdsworth or
> Hendrix without the genius of Boxcar Willie"
> -- Mark Garvin
> Remove X's from my email address above to reply
> [These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]


--
Les Cargill

['nuther Bob]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 05:08:30 GMT, Not A Speck Of Cereal
<XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote:

>But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
>Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
>high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.
>
>Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
>rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.

Actually, it's you who is discriminating, by assuming that only blacks
listen to RAP (Assuming you are not discriminating against greasy,
looking punks with too many tatoos, too baggy pants, and too little
facial hair to grow a real beard - sort of like enemyM&M.)

If those are the CD's that suffer a high theft rate, then they should
be placed under more security. I can't imagine that management
actively says "black kids steal these, lets make them secure".

Bob

[ryanm]

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"'nuther Bob" <nooneyet@nowwhere.net> wrote in message
news:s0lsjvsi645advki1g9g2l7le8upigei03@4ax.com...
>
> Actually, it's you who is discriminating, by assuming that only blacks
> listen to RAP (Assuming you are not discriminating against greasy,
> looking punks with too many tatoos, too baggy pants, and too little
> facial hair to grow a real beard - sort of like enemyM&M.)
>
> If those are the CD's that suffer a high theft rate, then they should
> be placed under more security. I can't imagine that management
> actively says "black kids steal these, lets make them secure".
>
We already know that Chris hides his racism and bigotry behind a facade
of being overly sensitive, not that anyone is buying it. He's offended for
them, even if they don't know they should be offended.

ryanm

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

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Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 03:47:07 GMT
Xref: news.newshosting.com rec.music.makers.guitar:135430

As 'nuther Bob <nooneyet@nowwhere.net> so eloquently put:
[] On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 05:08:30 GMT, Not A Speck Of Cereal
[] <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote:
[]
[] >But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
[] >Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
[] >high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.
[] >
[] >Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
[] >rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.
[]
[] Actually, it's you who is discriminating, by assuming that only blacks
[] listen to RAP (Assuming you are not discriminating against greasy,
[] looking punks with too many tatoos, too baggy pants, and too little
[] facial hair to grow a real beard - sort of like enemyM&M.)
[]
[] If those are the CD's that suffer a high theft rate, then they should
[] be placed under more security. I can't imagine that management
[] actively says "black kids steal these, lets make them secure".

Okay, you got me there. I too listen to some rap.

But it does still seem like a form of discrimination. "Those
individuals who listen to this genre are likely the criminal sort". As
a non-criminal some-times rap genre music purchaser, I do feel
somewhat slighted.

Chris

----
"...there would have been no Holdsworth or
Hendrix without the genius of Boxcar Willie"
-- Mark Garvin
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]

[ryanm]

"Not A Speck Of Cereal" <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote in message
news:jri0kvshmt88lee0s1p609brlnj324eivc@4ax.com...
>
> Okay, you got me there. I too listen to some rap.
>
> But it does still seem like a form of discrimination. "Those
> individuals who listen to this genre are likely the criminal sort". As
> a non-criminal some-times rap genre music purchaser, I do feel
> somewhat slighted.
>
Again, you're being overly sensitive. There is nothing wrong with
discrimination, it is by definition (according to Webster's): "To make a
clear distinction; distinguish". None of which has anything to do with a
retail store putting higher security on items that are stolen more often,
any more than it is discriminatory for 7/11 to put cigarettes behind the
counter. These are items that have a history of being stolen more often, it
is not only their right but their responsibility, as store owners, to put
higher security on them. Calm down, take a deep breath, and let people get
offended for themselves, rather than being offended for them all the time.

ryanm

['nuther Bob]

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 23:19:40 -0600, "ryanm"
<ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote:

>"Those
>> individuals who listen to this genre are likely the criminal sort". As
>> a non-criminal some-times rap genre music purchaser, I do feel
>> somewhat slighted.
>>

I'd say it's more "these CD's seem to be disappearing from the stores
at an alarming rate.". It does cost them more to put the anti-theft
devices on CD's - I don't think they'd bother if they weren't being
stolen.

Bob

[Steve]

<< Do you guys really think all this
> bull**** you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
> issues of race and affirmative action? ...

Couldn't agree more.>>

Given the sentence structure, I'm not sure what the agreement was even about...



SEFSTRAT
solo webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html
band webpage: www.timebanditsrock.com

[Odin]

"Not A Speck Of Cereal" <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote in message

> But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
> Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
> high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.
>
> Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
> rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.

Negatory. It's called common sense. If 50 Cent CD's are getting stolen by
the dozen and Barbara Mandrell CD's are never stolen, and the security
packaging costs the retailer $1 per CD, then securing the 50 Cent CD's and
not the Barbara Mandrell CD's is NOT racial discrimination, it's just plain
common sense on the part of a businessman trying to stay profitable. Never
mind the fact that most of the rap CD's are bought by white kids from the
suburbs.

[Odin]

"Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> topposted a troll in message

> Wow, is this the best you can do?

That's what I asked your sister.


> You are more even more impotent than
> I ever suspected.

That's what she told your father.


> A "your sister" joke? I thought your comments were
> half-witted enough before the "your sister" joke.

Fine, just try to have her bathed and ready when I get there next time.


> **** man, you are so incredibly lame. Do you derive some sort of
> perverse pleasure out of looking like a total fool in front of your
> peers? Do you even realize it?

You're not my peer, you're my *****. HTH.



> > "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man" ****
> > > getting a little bit old and tired?
> >
> > Isn't the concept of "my grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's
> > grandfatehr was a slave so I deserve special treatment and reparations"
> > getting a little bit old and tired?
> >
> >
> > > Do you guys really think all this
> > > bull**** you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
> > > issues of race and affirmative action?
> >
> > No, everyone knows that affirmative action is discrimination, plain and
> > simple.
> >
> >
> > > Odin, your guitar playing sucks
> > > ass (yes, I've heard your clips)
> >
> > That's true, but I'm better than you, so go figure.
> >
> >
> > > and your attempts at social
> > > commentary are pathetic.
> >
> > Translation: The truth hurts.
> >
> >
> > > **** off already.
> >
> > Don't beg, it makes you look as cheap as your sister.

[Robert Barker]

"Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> wrote in message
news:SQB1b.2751$vy5.2339@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "Not A Speck Of Cereal" <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote in message
>
> > But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
> > Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
> > high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.
> >
> > Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
> > rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.
>
> Negatory. It's called common sense. If 50 Cent CD's are getting stolen
by
> the dozen and Barbara Mandrell CD's are never stolen, and the security
> packaging costs the retailer $1 per CD, then securing the 50 Cent CD's and
> not the Barbara Mandrell CD's is NOT racial discrimination, it's just
plain
> common sense on the part of a businessman trying to stay profitable.
Never
> mind the fact that most of the rap CD's are bought by white kids from the
> suburbs.
>
>
I can tell you right now, that you'll never get Mr. ACLU/Sherwood to believe
that. And, btw, you mis-spelled 'stolen by white kids from the suburbs'. HTH
;+)

[Reign_Of_Error]

"Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> trolled in message
news:<yTB1b.2763$vy5.1242@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...

Yawn. Why do you bother?

> "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> topposted a troll in message
>
> > Wow, is this the best you can do?
>
> That's what I asked your sister.
>
>
> > You are more even more impotent than
> > I ever suspected.
>
> That's what she told your father.
>
>
> > A "your sister" joke? I thought your comments were
> > half-witted enough before the "your sister" joke.
>
> Fine, just try to have her bathed and ready when I get there next time.
>
>
> > **** man, you are so incredibly lame. Do you derive some sort of
> > perverse pleasure out of looking like a total fool in front of your
> > peers? Do you even realize it?
>
> You're not my peer, you're my *****. HTH.
>
>
>
> > > "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > > Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man" ****
> > > > getting a little bit old and tired?
> > >
> > > Isn't the concept of "my grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's
> > > grandfatehr was a slave so I deserve special treatment and reparations"
> > > getting a little bit old and tired?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Do you guys really think all this
> > > > bull**** you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
> > > > issues of race and affirmative action?
> > >
> > > No, everyone knows that affirmative action is discrimination, plain and
> > > simple.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Odin, your guitar playing sucks
> > > > ass (yes, I've heard your clips)
> > >
> > > That's true, but I'm better than you, so go figure.
> > >
> > >
> > > > and your attempts at social
> > > > commentary are pathetic.
> > >
> > > Translation: The truth hurts.
> > >
> > >
> > > > **** off already.
> > >
> > > Don't beg, it makes you look as cheap as your sister.

[Odin]

"Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> top posted a troll in message

> Yawn. Why do you bother?

Because she's easy. It's really no bother at all.



> > "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> topposted a troll in
message
> >
> > > Wow, is this the best you can do?
> >
> > That's what I asked your sister.
> >
> >
> > > You are more even more impotent than
> > > I ever suspected.
> >
> > That's what she told your father.
> >
> >
> > > A "your sister" joke? I thought your comments were
> > > half-witted enough before the "your sister" joke.
> >
> > Fine, just try to have her bathed and ready when I get there next time.
> >
> >
> > > **** man, you are so incredibly lame. Do you derive some sort of
> > > perverse pleasure out of looking like a total fool in front of your
> > > peers? Do you even realize it?
> >
> > You're not my peer, you're my *****. HTH.
> >
> >
> >
> > > > "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > > Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man"
****
> > > > > getting a little bit old and tired?
> > > >
> > > > Isn't the concept of "my grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's
> > > > grandfatehr was a slave so I deserve special treatment and
reparations"
> > > > getting a little bit old and tired?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Do you guys really think all this
> > > > > bull**** you are carrying on with actually
new/innovative/shedding on
> > > > > issues of race and affirmative action?
> > > >
> > > > No, everyone knows that affirmative action is discrimination, plain
and
> > > > simple.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Odin, your guitar playing sucks
> > > > > ass (yes, I've heard your clips)
> > > >
> > > > That's true, but I'm better than you, so go figure.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > and your attempts at social
> > > > > commentary are pathetic.
> > > >
> > > > Translation: The truth hurts.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > **** off already.
> > > >
> > > > Don't beg, it makes you look as cheap as your sister.