Getting closer to the kit.

[Richard H. Blount]

As I may have mentioned earlier, I am recently disabled and have for the
last couple weeks trying to get back to my beloved hobby of playing along
with the oldies on the radio. It has become a problem falling off the
throne so I got energetic this morning and tried lowering the toms and snare
and trying to wheel in behind the set. Problem is I cant seem to get close
enough to get a good hunker going. I rather seem to have to reach out more
than is comfortable and robs me of what speed I have left. Also as my elbows
are resting on the arms I believe I will resemble popeye in short order. Are
there any others out there that might have suggestions? Do they make thrones
with like a seat belt or something to keep me from wiping out in a very
undignified manner? I have a heckuva lot of time on my hands now and don¹t
want to get addicted to TV or ebay (although I do browse ebay a lot looking
but not buying) and the kit keeps calling me out to the garage.

[Pat McDonald]

In article <BB6154E2.270B%rh.blount@adelphia.net>, Richard H. Blount
<rh.blount@adelphia.net> wrote:

> As I may have mentioned earlier, I am recently disabled and have for the
> last couple weeks trying to get back to my beloved hobby of playing along
> with the oldies on the radio. It has become a problem falling off the
> throne so I got energetic this morning and tried lowering the toms and snare
> and trying to wheel in behind the set. Problem is I cant seem to get close
> enough to get a good hunker going. I rather seem to have to reach out more
> than is comfortable and robs me of what speed I have left. Also as my elbows
> are resting on the arms I believe I will resemble popeye in short order. Are
> there any others out there that might have suggestions? Do they make thrones
> with like a seat belt or something to keep me from wiping out in a very
> undignified manner? I have a heckuva lot of time on my hands now and don¹t
> want to get addicted to TV or ebay (although I do browse ebay a lot looking
> but not buying) and the kit keeps calling me out to the garage.
>
>
Hey Richard-

Man, it's great to hear you haven't lost the drum bug! If you're
even slightly mobile, maybe you should look into a DrumFrame. It's a
rack system that tilts back with a tall-backed, reclined seat that
sounds like it might be just the ticket to enable you to get closer to
the drums and not have to be concerned with falling off the throne.
I'm sure a Google search would show something for you.

Pat

[John P.]

"Richard H. Blount" <rh.blount@adelphia.net> wrote in a message

> Problem is I cant seem to get close enough to get a good hunker going. I
rather
> seem to have to reach out more than is comfortable and robs me of what
speed
> I have left.

You can get a little bit more reach using longer sticks (maybe).

I'm looking into this "Off-Set Bass Drum Pedal"... it's a double, which you
may not want, but it has the beaters in the middle with pedals to the right
& left. That allows you to put the snare in the center of you BD, between
your mounted toms. Something like that might give you more options on your
setup and where you're sitting.

More info here:
http://www.pointtremolo.com/off-set_basspedal.pdf

[Chris Ely]

>
>
><BB6154E2.270B%rh.blount@adelphia.net>, Richard H. Blount
><rh.blount@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I am recently disabled
>>
>>
<snip>

>>
>>
> If you're even slightly mobile, maybe you should look into a DrumFrame.
>I'm sure a Google search would show something for you.
>
>Pat
>
>
>
<snip>

Manufacturer:
http://drumframe.com/

Retail:
http://www.music123.com/Item/?itemno=35158

-C.J.
====================
"Nothing done by accident is art" -Duke Ellington

[joem]

John P. wanted everyone in rec.music.makers.percussion to know that
> You can get a little bit more reach using longer sticks (maybe).
>
> I'm looking into this "Off-Set Bass Drum Pedal"... it's a double, which you
> may not want, but it has the beaters in the middle with pedals to the right
> & left. That allows you to put the snare in the center of you BD, between
> your mounted toms. Something like that might give you more options on your
> setup and where you're sitting.

if he's just interested in a single pedal, any double pedal will work as
an "offset pedal." that is, one can position the bass drum anywhere they
wish (within reason) and place the pedal pretty much anywhere they wish
by just using the "slave" pedal as the "master" and attaching the master
pedal to the drum itself.

--
Joe.

"you're an electronic girl...i'm a rock guy...i don't think we have a
chance." - storm&stress

[John P.]

"joem" <jmelnyk@REMOVE_THIS_PARTcs.kent.edu> wrote in a message


> if he's just interested in a single pedal, any double pedal will work as
> an "offset pedal." that is, one can position the bass drum anywhere they
> wish (within reason) and place the pedal pretty much anywhere they wish
> by just using the "slave" pedal as the "master" and attaching the master
> pedal to the drum itself.

I was thinking that, but double pedals seem set up with the slave pedal on
the left. I didn't go down to look at mine to see if it was possible to have
the slave on the right... never been something I wanted to do.

[Dik LeDoux]

Yeah, the drumframe thing seems like it'd work well, but I don't think
there's any way to hold yourself down in it. Seems like any solutions gonna
include a DIY seatbelt mod.

Dik

--
"Face it, dude. You don't swing.
Never have. Never will." - - Gary Smiley on RMMP
--
"Pat McDonald" <patdrums@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:140820031419390418%patdrums@bellsouth.net...
> In article <BB6154E2.270B%rh.blount@adelphia.net>, Richard H. Blount
> <rh.blount@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> > As I may have mentioned earlier, I am recently disabled and have for the
> > last couple weeks trying to get back to my beloved hobby of playing
along
> > with the oldies on the radio. It has become a problem falling off the
> > throne so I got energetic this morning and tried lowering the toms and
snare
> > and trying to wheel in behind the set. Problem is I cant seem to get
close
> > enough to get a good hunker going. I rather seem to have to reach out
more
> > than is comfortable and robs me of what speed I have left. Also as my
elbows
> > are resting on the arms I believe I will resemble popeye in short order.
Are
> > there any others out there that might have suggestions? Do they make
thrones
> > with like a seat belt or something to keep me from wiping out in a very
> > undignified manner? I have a heckuva lot of time on my hands now and
don¹t
> > want to get addicted to TV or ebay (although I do browse ebay a lot
looking
> > but not buying) and the kit keeps calling me out to the garage.
> >
> >
> Hey Richard-
>
> Man, it's great to hear you haven't lost the drum bug! If you're
> even slightly mobile, maybe you should look into a DrumFrame. It's a
> rack system that tilts back with a tall-backed, reclined seat that
> sounds like it might be just the ticket to enable you to get closer to
> the drums and not have to be concerned with falling off the throne.
> I'm sure a Google search would show something for you.
>
> Pat
>

[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

Pat McDonald <patdrums@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Hey Richard-

> Man, it's great to hear you haven't lost the drum bug! If you're
> even slightly mobile, maybe you should look into a DrumFrame. It's a
> rack system that tilts back with a tall-backed, reclined seat that
> sounds like it might be just the ticket to enable you to get closer to
> the drums and not have to be concerned with falling off the throne.
> I'm sure a Google search would show something for you.
> Pat

I was just about to say this when Pat beat me too it. I've got a
drumFrame and it solves the balancing on a stool problem for
all drummers. It's proved especially useful for disabled drummers
and those with certain painful diseases that limit motion,
ability to sit, etc. While the chair is high-backed it could
be a tad larger perhaps (depending on the size of your butt...
mine is large). But I believe it is just THE answer for you.
Yes it wouldn't take much to modify the seat to put a larger
bottom or yes, even a seat belt on it! They are kind of expensive
as rack systems go, but in your case I believe it is the ticket.

If you want to learn more see if you can get hold of Bob
Gatzen at Drumframe.com. He's a great guy and I'm sure
can give you lots of success stories about other disabled
drummers who have found the DrumFrame has made the complete
difference between being able to enjoy playing and giving it
up.

Benj
(Who loves his DrumFrame!)
--
SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!

[-MIKE-]

> Hey Richard-
>
> Man, it's great to hear you haven't lost the drum bug! If you're
> even slightly mobile, maybe you should look into a DrumFrame. It's a
> rack system that tilts back with a tall-backed, reclined seat that
> sounds like it might be just the ticket to enable you to get closer to
> the drums and not have to be concerned with falling off the throne.
> I'm sure a Google search would show something for you.
>
> Pat
>


That's just what I was thinking, Pat. I wonder if Bob Gatzen has
any demo models sitting around he would give up for cheap.

If it's something you're interested in, Richard, I bet we could take
up an rmmp collection.


-MIKE-

--
http://mikedrums.com
mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[-MIKE-]

> Yeah, the drumframe thing seems like it'd work well, but I don't think
> there's any way to hold yourself down in it. Seems like any solutions
> gonna include a DIY seatbelt mod.
>
> Dik


It's hard to get *off* a drumframe. :-)

I think a drumframe would free up his balance to be able to play
much more freely.


-MIKE-

--
http://mikedrums.com
mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Pat McDonald]

In article <GOmdnT5u14ypZqaiU-KYvw@comcast.com>, -MIKE-
<mike@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote:

> > Hey Richard-
> >
> > Man, it's great to hear you haven't lost the drum bug! If you're
> > even slightly mobile, maybe you should look into a DrumFrame. It's a
> > rack system that tilts back with a tall-backed, reclined seat that
> > sounds like it might be just the ticket to enable you to get closer to
> > the drums and not have to be concerned with falling off the throne.
> > I'm sure a Google search would show something for you.
> >
> > Pat
> >
>
>
> That's just what I was thinking, Pat. I wonder if Bob Gatzen has
> any demo models sitting around he would give up for cheap.
>
> If it's something you're interested in, Richard, I bet we could take
> up an rmmp collection.
>
>
> -MIKE-
>
> --
> http://mikedrums.com
> mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>



I'll make the first donation if you're serious, Mike.


Pat

[joem]

John P. wanted everyone in rec.music.makers.percussion to know that
> I was thinking that, but double pedals seem set up with the slave pedal on
> the left. I didn't go down to look at mine to see if it was possible to have
> the slave on the right... never been something I wanted to do.

I didn't think he cared too much, so long as he could play his kit.

--
Joe.

"you're an electronic girl...i'm a rock guy...i don't think we have a
chance." - storm&stress

[MMORITZ884]

- Get an office chair from OfficeMax or Staples, with back rest and arm rests
to prevent tippage, and
- Get a HipGig Jr. or similar with "gay" bass drum so you can set everything
low, or
- Get a Roland SPD pad with a pedal, and you can set the drums and pedal
anywhere you want.

[-MIKE-]

>> That's just what I was thinking, Pat. I wonder if Bob Gatzen has
>> any demo models sitting around he would give up for cheap.
>>
>> If it's something you're interested in, Richard, I bet we could take
>> up an rmmp collection.
>>
>>
>> -MIKE-
>>
>
>
>
> I'll make the first donation if you're serious, Mike.
>
>
> Pat
>


I'm totally serious. I'm going to try to get a hold of Bob and see
what he feels like he can do. See future post.


-MIKE-

--
http://mikedrums.com
mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[John P.]

"joem" <jmelnyk@REMOVE_THIS_PARTcs.kent.edu> wrote in a message

> I didn't think he cared too much, so long as he could play his kit.

Well, either way, it's a possible option that may or may not help. He'll
just have to try different things and see what feels best for him.

[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

Dik LeDoux <dikledoux@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yeah, the drumframe thing seems like it'd work well, but I don't think
> there's any way to hold yourself down in it. Seems like any solutions gonna
> include a DIY seatbelt mod.

Actually it's not as bad as you night think. For one thing, sitting
on a normal throne is like sitting on the top of a flag pole.
you can tilt off in any direction. On the drumframe, you really only
can tilt left and right and sort of roll off the chair. And I'm thinking
that even that could be drastically improved if say you swapped
the DrumFRame seat bottom for say a Roc n Sock large motorcycle
seat that sort of cradles your bottom. Plus if worse came to worse
it'd be a snap to add a "seatbelt" to the drumFrame seat. A seatbelt
won't work on a normal drum throne because you can tilt of in
any direction. But on the DrumFrame seat, you could put the strap
around the back rest and you could never fall off! Or also you might
add a couple of side pads to back rest to brace you left and right. But
truthfully, I really think that the chair will probably work pretty well
as is! The one problem I can see as someone noted is that getting into
the seat might be a hassle. But once there you could ROOL!

Benj
--
SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!

[Pete Pemberton]

>
>
> That's just what I was thinking, Pat. I wonder if Bob Gatzen has
> any demo models sitting around he would give up for cheap.
>
> If it's something you're interested in, Richard, I bet we could take
> up an rmmp collection.
>
>
> -MIKE-


Wait a minute here, guys. Let's not be insulting. The man says he is
disabled, has trouble getting close to the kit and you want to give him
money? Is this going to make you feel better or something? Personally if it
were me, I would find your offer insensitive and affront to my self of
steam. He is not asking for a handout here, just a solution.

PP

[-MIKE-]

>> That's just what I was thinking, Pat. I wonder if Bob Gatzen has
>> any demo models sitting around he would give up for cheap.
>>
>> If it's something you're interested in, Richard, I bet we could take
>> up an rmmp collection.
>>
>>
>> -MIKE-
>
>
> Wait a minute here, guys. Let's not be insulting. The man says he is
> disabled, has trouble getting close to the kit and you want to give him
> money? Is this going to make you feel better or something? Personally if
> it were me, I would find your offer insensitive and affront to my self of
> steam. He is not asking for a handout here, just a solution.
>
> PP
>

Well it's not you Pete. If it were you and you took offence, we
wouldn't do it. Richard and I have corresponded about this. If he
were to change his mind, or find that one of the other options he is
exploring solves the problem, we will drop it.

BTW, who said we want to give him money. We want to help him get a
drumframe, if it will solve his problem. We don't want to give him
money. We want to help provide him with a solution.

Pride stands in the way of many blessings. And since when is it a
crime to feel good about helping others? I'll get pissed off about
the whole thing, if it means you'll contribute more. :-p


-MIKE-

--
http://mikedrums.com
mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

John P. <JohnP6617@removethiscomcast.net> wrote:

> I'm looking into this "Off-Set Bass Drum Pedal"... it's a double, which you
> may not want, but it has the beaters in the middle with pedals to the right
> & left. That allows you to put the snare in the center of you BD, between
> your mounted toms. Something like that might give you more options on your
> setup and where you're sitting.

> More info here:
> http://www.pointtremolo.com/off-set_basspedal.pdf

Here's another idea that might work. Airto Moreira came up with
using a double bass pedal on his percussion rig. It's NOT
used as a double, but you play the slave pedal as a single.
You do that so that the bass drum can be way off to the right.
I can see where you could set up something with bass to the
right and cable hat to the left and say a pair of toms
on a stand that you could wheel right up to and if the
arms were taken off the chair, you might have plenty
of room to flail around.

I'd approach the problem the way I did with my drumset.
Don't just do like so many do and look for places to sit
stands and clamp things but turn it around. Start FIRST
with where you want the varous drums and pedals to be and
THEN find ways to mount them there. I'd start with a
chair that works be it wheeled or DrumFrame or other and
once you've got that down, then move on to how you can mount
the various drum things in the right relation to the chair.

Just my 2 Cents.

Benj
--
SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!

[Lacreta]

"Richard H. Blount"
> As I may have mentioned earlier, I am recently disabled and have for the
> last couple weeks trying to get back to my beloved hobby of playing along
> with the oldies on the radio.

I just wanted to add how great it is to see supportive in-put from
the group. And now I'm interested in the drum frame too. I have
really short legs, (I'm a 5'2" woman btw) and getting to each and
every drum, cymbal, cow bell, or whatever is rather interesting for
me. I hate it when my husband, (a guitar player) moves anything,,,

anyway, the whole drum thing for me has been a real inspiration. My
ankles were shattered 11 years ago and I have a bunch of hardware
in my ankles. Fortunately I'm in relatively decent shape and can
get around fine. Taking up drums has greatly improved my leg
strength, stamina, and mobility range. Plus it hasn't hurt my
ego either..........people love to hear that a woman plays drums.

thanx for a great thread,
Tara

[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

Lacreta <lacreta8@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I just wanted to add how great it is to see supportive in-put from
> the group. And now I'm interested in the drum frame too. I have
> really short legs, (I'm a 5'2" woman btw) and getting to each and
> every drum, cymbal, cow bell, or whatever is rather interesting for
> me. I hate it when my husband, (a guitar player) moves anything,,,

AS a drumframe owner let me say a couple of things about it. I
think the thing is simply wonderful whether or not a person has
medical difficulties or not. The tilt back position is extremely
comfortable and greatly reduces the "falling forward" problem that
double bass players have from not having a stabilizing foot on the
hat pedal. And there have been reports from Gatzen and others that
the DrumFrame has for people with medical problems of various
sorts been the difference between playing and not playing or playing
for minutes and playing for hours.

That is the plus side. But there is also a down side. First off
it's a Rack system. So that means the thing is heavy. And Since
the Drumframe includes a tilt back throne and riser it even more
heavy. Now mind you it is NOT heavier than the gear a drummer might
use that has a rack, large throne, and riser with his rig! But
is bulkier and heavier than a few stands and a light throne.
This turns some people off to it. Hey, it turns ME off to it!
And by that I mean that now, I only use the Drumframe out when
I'm getting paid to haul it. For freebies, jam sessions, charity
events etc. I take the reduced kit which is just a few drums,
tom-bass, and a couple of stands. But the Frame almost always set
up for practice. And if I don't have to schlep it simply CANNOT
be beat!

As for your case, let me tell you how I did it with my drumframe.
It's kind of a matter of how you think. Most drummers (including
me in pre-drumframe days) set up the kit by opening the stands,
sitting them on what ever open spaces on the floor they can
find and maybe jockey them around a bit to get some "optimum"
fit. If they need a cowbell they look around and say "hey,
theres an open spot on the bass drum hoop, I'll clamp one
there.

I respectfully submit that this thinking is ass-backwards! What you
need to do is plop your butt on the throne (or in my case drumframe
chair) and then start evaluating exactly WHERE you'd like each item
to be in front of you. Snare, hat, cymbals, pedals, toms, bells,
whatever. Then having figured out where you'd like the item to
be located THEN you figure out how to mount it in THAT spot. Whatever
kind of rods, clamps, supports, you have to buy/build you DO it!
And then finally, you MEMORY LOCK all that gear so each thing
ALWAYS goes into that exact spot every time you set up. Even
my pedals have pins so they go on the velcro EXACTLY the same
way EVERY time! Let me tell you THIS is HEAVEN! Your drumset finally
begins to feel like you are playing an INSTRUMENT rather than some
collection of crap! This is one thing the DrumFrame did for me
and I found it WORTH whatever it costs! Can you dig it? Heh, heh,
I KNEW that you could! :-)

> anyway, the whole drum thing for me has been a real inspiration. My
> ankles were shattered 11 years ago and I have a bunch of hardware
> in my ankles. Fortunately I'm in relatively decent shape and can
> get around fine. Taking up drums has greatly improved my leg
> strength, stamina, and mobility range. Plus it hasn't hurt my
> ego either..........people love to hear that a woman plays drums.

So I strongly advise looking into a Drumframe or at least a rack.
Before I had that, I used to have drum rug with magic marker
outlines where things sat on it, but the memlock rack thing
is much superior.

Benj

--
SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!

[Anne Bennett]

B = <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net>
L = Lacreta <lacreta8@hotmail.com>

L> I just wanted to add how great it is to see supportive in-put from
L> the group. And now I'm interested in the drum frame too. I have
L> really short legs, (I'm a 5'2" woman btw) and getting to each and
L> every drum, cymbal, cow bell, or whatever is rather interesting for
L> me.

I am a beginner drummer, female, and one inch shorter than you. I've been
trying several set-ups, from the fairly standard to the quite wierd, and
I think I'm getting closer, but it's a bit of a battle, and often I'm not
sure whether I'm having trouble with something because the ergonomics
are not right yet, or because I haven't yet built up the strength and
endurance I need.

Anyway, I'd be very interested to know how you set up your gear, if
you don't mind explaining or showing.


B> AS a drumframe owner let me say a couple of things about it. I
B> think the thing is simply wonderful whether or not a person has
B> medical difficulties or not.

I looked at it when buying my first drum kit a few weeks ago, and was
quite intrigued, especially after having read words of praise for it
that had been posted here in the past. Despite the hefty price tag,
I was tempted. Here's the main thing that stopped me, though:

Most of my drum instruction so far came during a one-week workshop last
July (at Guitar Workshop Plus, in Oakville, Ontario, Canada, if anyone
is interested -- I had a great time, and learned a lot). During that
workshop, we had some "class hours" on our own kits, which were set up
in the "drum room", and some hours playing with other people, on drum
kits set up in two other rooms. That suggested to me that I had better
be able to play on a "standard" set-up, since I might not always be
playing my own kit. I was concerned that if I learn on a DrumFrame,
I might have difficulty adapting to a regular set-up.

So for now, I've decided to go with standard mounts, and once (if ever!) I
get beyond the "beginner" stage and I'm more confident in my ability to
adapt quickly from one situation to another, I might look more seriously
at the DrumFrame.

Ben, you say you play both types of set-up regularly. What is your
experience in switching back and forth?

B> The tilt back position is extremely comfortable

Your neck doesn't get tired from holding your head up at that angle?

B> It's kind of a matter of how you think. Most drummers (including
B> me in pre-drumframe days) set up the kit [stands first]
B> I respectfully submit that this thinking is ass-backwards! What you
B> need to do is plop your butt on the throne (or in my case drumframe
B> chair) and then start evaluating exactly WHERE you'd like each item
B> to be in front of you.

I tried that a while ago; I ended up with something really weird, and
the drums were too far apart. The sizes (depths) of the drums alone,
even if I could suspend them with a magical anti-gravity system,
impose some constraints, at least for a short person. A solution
might be to decouple the pedal locations from the bass drum and hat
locations (using a double BD pedal and a remote hihat pedal, for
example), and have really thin toms (electronic?), but I'm not feeling
quite that radical! Just "sending the bass drum away" would let me
put my toms as low as I want them (well, until they crashed into the
snare drum). Everything is just so darned big!

The peanut gallery that wishes to point out that I'm just too darned
small can keep its comments to itself. And kiddy sets, if they came
in the appropriate quality, wouldn't satisfy my desire for a BIG bass
drum sound.

(The "really weird" part of my former set-up is that once I had the drums
and cymbals in place, I was looking for somewhere to put a music stand,
and I stuck it into the then-unused tom mount hole in the bass drum.
It was funny while it lasted, and actually worked reasonably well,
but that bass drum position prevented me from pulling the floor tom
close enough, so it had to go.)

Don't worry; I'll get this eventually. I'm stubborn. :-)


Anne.
--
Ms. Anne Bennett, Senior Sysadmin, ENCS, Concordia University, Montreal H3G 1M8
anne@encs.concordia.ca +1 514 848-2424 x2285

[Glenn Dowdy]

"Anne Bennett" <anne@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote in message
news:bhr52v$phc$1@newsflash.concordia.ca...
>
> The peanut gallery that wishes to point out that I'm just too darned
> small can keep its comments to itself. And kiddy sets, if they came
> in the appropriate quality, wouldn't satisfy my desire for a BIG bass
> drum sound.
>
It's probably not the optimal solution, but you could always trigger your
kick sound and use a much small kick. Kits like the Hipgig and Hipgig, Jr.
would give you more flexible setup choices and the trigger would still give
you that big bass drum sound.

Glenn D.

[Mike Rittenhouse]

Hey folks, it's been a few years. Nice to see some familiar typers... hope
everyone is doing well!

<bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
news:bho7mc$56o$1@tribune.oar.net...
> I respectfully submit that this thinking is ass-backwards! What you
> need to do is plop your butt on the throne (or in my case drumframe
> chair) and then start evaluating exactly WHERE you'd like each item
> to be in front of you. Snare, hat, cymbals, pedals, toms, bells,
> whatever. Then having figured out where you'd like the item to
> be located THEN you figure out how to mount it in THAT spot.

I agree with this... I start with my throne and my bass drum, hi hat and
snare. Once those are happening where I need them, everything else gets
fitted around. The lesser things can change, but the distance or closeness
your legs need to hit the pedals comfortably is paramount. So much of your
balance comes from this, and your body parts won't interact easily without
this balance. Once this relationship is established however, I usually have
other things in different places at each gig to some degree. It would be
nice to have it always the same, but I don't find it's necessary, and
sometimes it's impossible.

As of last week I had spent the last 6 years playing with one tom up, a
space, and 2 toms down, like floor toms... I like this because it allows my
ride cymbal to be low, where a traditional second tom would be mounted on
the bass drum. I bought a new kit, and have 2 toms mounted on my bass now,
and only one down. Tonight I was playing a gig and went for that second
ex-floor tom and hit air! Almost lost my stick! Some re-training takes
more time than others ;)

It's good to play with a variety of different setups, even in practice,
because in the real gigging world you will have to fit your kit here and
there, or play other peoples setups sometimes, and you have to be able to
adjust to most changes without blinking to get your music out there the way
you intend it. Ben reminded me that I should set up my memory locks.....
they definitely help take out some of the guesswork.

Mike

[Chris Milillo]

"Mike Rittenhouse" <zippofluid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tVj0b.5428$q9.289722@read1.cgocable.net...
> Hey folks, it's been a few years. Nice to see some familiar typers...
hope
> everyone is doing well!

Yo, Mike! It HAS been a while! How're things?

CM

[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

Anne Bennett <anne@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote: > I was tempted. Here's
the main thing that stopped me, though:

> That suggested to me that I had better
> be able to play on a "standard" set-up, since I might not always be
> playing my own kit. I was concerned that if I learn on a DrumFrame,
> I might have difficulty adapting to a regular set-up.

I agree with this. I don't think I'd recommend a drumframe to someone
who had no experience with drumming at all.

> So for now, I've decided to go with standard mounts, and once (if ever!) I
> get beyond the "beginner" stage and I'm more confident in my ability to
> adapt quickly from one situation to another, I might look more seriously
> at the DrumFrame.

Exactly! The point is once you have some experience under your belt,
you will be much better able to judge exaclty what "your" kit should
be and exactly how it should be set up. I would save the big cash
for later when you have that judgement.

> Ben, you say you play both types of set-up regularly. What is your
> experience in switching back and forth?

I prefer to play the DrumFrame, but I hate to haul all that heavy
crap around. So I play both. The standard set up is more tiring
especially in long sessions, you can't work the double pedals
as easily and the drums etc. aren't always in the same exact
place each time I set up the standard kit and that's annoying.
But hey, I played a standard setup for beaucoup years before
I got the DrumFrame so I know what it takes. (Um, you get a piece
of rope (or an old shoestring as I observed was STILL tied to my
old unused bass pedal) and tie the bass pedal and hat pedal to
the throne leg... :-)

> B> The tilt back position is extremely comfortable

> Your neck doesn't get tired from holding your head up at that angle?

No. Your head is actualy tilted forward. You hold your head so
it is more or less balanced on the top of your neck. It's not
tiring.

> B> It's kind of a matter of how you think. Most drummers (including
> B> me in pre-drumframe days) set up the kit [stands first]
> B> I respectfully submit that this thinking is ass-backwards! What you
> B> need to do is plop your butt on the throne (or in my case drumframe
> B> chair) and then start evaluating exactly WHERE you'd like each item
> B> to be in front of you.

> I tried that a while ago; I ended up with something really weird, and
> the drums were too far apart. The sizes (depths) of the drums alone,
> even if I could suspend them with a magical anti-gravity system,
> impose some constraints, at least for a short person. A solution
> might be to decouple the pedal locations from the bass drum and hat
> locations (using a double BD pedal and a remote hihat pedal, for
> example), and have really thin toms (electronic?), but I'm not feeling
> quite that radical! Just "sending the bass drum away" would let me
> put my toms as low as I want them (well, until they crashed into the
> snare drum). Everything is just so darned big!

You actually didn't try it a while ago. Because if you had, you wouldn't
have ended up with the drums anywhere but where you wanted them!

But you DO raise a very important point. Namely that sometimes the
optimum drum placement means that a deep tom, for example bumps
into the bass drum. You can only lower toms so much until they
hit the bass. This is one reason why the second tom in a "standard"
kit is 13" rather than the more optimum (for tuning) 14". The smaller
tom can be moved lower.

> The peanut gallery that wishes to point out that I'm just too darned
> small can keep its comments to itself. And kiddy sets, if they came
> in the appropriate quality, wouldn't satisfy my desire for a BIG bass
> drum sound.

My "method" still works. Start with drums where YOU want them and then
figure out HOW to get them there. Here's one hint. Move the bass to
the side. Use the Airto Moreira method. He uses the slave pedal of a
double pedal as the bass pedal and the bass drum is actually off to the
side (it isn't used as a normal double). E-drum bass or toms is another
solution. Smaller bass drum is another. Moving toms to the side and
hanging off a stand is yet another. Things are far from hopeless.

> (The "really weird" part of my former set-up is that once I had the drums
> and cymbals in place, I was looking for somewhere to put a music stand,
> and I stuck it into the then-unused tom mount hole in the bass drum.
> It was funny while it lasted, and actually worked reasonably well,
> but that bass drum position prevented me from pulling the floor tom
> close enough, so it had to go.)

Now you're thinking!

> Don't worry; I'll get this eventually. I'm stubborn. :-)

Good for you! Good luck!

> Anne.

Benj

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[Pete Pemberton]

"Anne Bennett" <anne@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote in message
news:bhr52v$phc$1@newsflash.concordia.ca...
> B = <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net>
> L = Lacreta <lacreta8@hotmail.com>
>
> L> I just wanted to add how great it is to see supportive in-put from
> L> the group. And now I'm interested in the drum frame too. I have
> L> really short legs, (I'm a 5'2" woman btw) and getting to each and
> L> every drum, cymbal, cow bell, or whatever is rather interesting for
> L> me.
>
> I am a beginner drummer, female, and one inch shorter than you. I've been
> trying several set-ups, from the fairly standard to the quite wierd, and
> I think I'm getting closer, but it's a bit of a battle, and often I'm not
> sure whether I'm having trouble with something because the ergonomics
> are not right yet, or because I haven't yet built up the strength and
> endurance I need.
>
> Anyway, I'd be very interested to know how you set up your gear, if
> you don't mind explaining or showing.


Another kit to look at are the 'short stack' kits, where the toms ARE
thinner than normal. I know DW had a kit like this, but it shouldn't be too
hard to modify any kit with a bandsaw, drill press, and router and the
expertise to run them, so long as the drums don't have reinforcing rings.

You mentioned endurance, this kind of sounds like you are working too hard
to be able to play. Just a question, do you use alot of whole arm motion, or
mostly just forearm and wrist motion?

What is your set up now?

With a drum frame, the seat is like a high back car seat, the neck is
supported by the back of the seat.

PP

[John P.]

"Mike Rittenhouse" <zippofluid@hotmail.com> wrote in a message

> As of last week I had spent the last 6 years playing with one tom up, a
> space, and 2 toms down, like floor toms... I like this because it allows
my
> ride cymbal to be low, where a traditional second tom would be mounted on
> the bass drum.

Have you seen Neal Peart's latest rig? That's pretty much what he has going
on. As usual, a LOT more than 3 toms. but the ride is very low over the BD
where the second tom would usually be. I thought that looked like something
I'd like to try.

[Mike Rittenhouse]

"John P." <JohnP6617@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:cru0b.152544$It4.76750@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att. net...

> Have you seen Neal Peart's latest rig? That's pretty much what he has
going
> on. As usual, a LOT more than 3 toms. but the ride is very low over the BD
> where the second tom would usually be. I thought that looked like
something
> I'd like to try.

About 7 years ago or so I was working super hard at developing my swing
ride, and I had my second tom on the bass drum, and my ride 'above' that,
if
you know what I mean. Well, after a month or so I awoke one night with
searing pain in my right shoulder. Since I had been holding my right arm
ever so slightly up from the shoulder to reach the sweet spot on my ride,
things in there(deltoid area)became inflamed, tight, and I tore my rotator
cuff(if I
remember the diagnosis correctly). Afterwards I went to a musicians
medical clinic for therapy and analysis of my playing technique, and was
strongly pushed towards lowering that cymbal so I could play it endlessly
without having to lift my elbow from my side. I haven't had a problem
since, but because of that injury I can only reach half as far up my back
with that arm when I try to soap up in the shower ;) Really, I think it's
a
good idea to keep that arm low if you play and practice alot.

Mike

[drumdude]

i think there really cool , but really bulky if you planned on moving it
around alot , usally everyone who demo's the one in my store likes it ....
ive sold 2 to date : )
"Anne Bennett" <anne@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote in message
news:bhr52v$phc$1@newsflash.concordia.ca...
> B = <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net>
> L = Lacreta <lacreta8@hotmail.com>
>
> L> I just wanted to add how great it is to see supportive in-put from
> L> the group. And now I'm interested in the drum frame too. I have
> L> really short legs, (I'm a 5'2" woman btw) and getting to each and
> L> every drum, cymbal, cow bell, or whatever is rather interesting for
> L> me.
>
> I am a beginner drummer, female, and one inch shorter than you. I've been
> trying several set-ups, from the fairly standard to the quite wierd, and
> I think I'm getting closer, but it's a bit of a battle, and often I'm not
> sure whether I'm having trouble with something because the ergonomics
> are not right yet, or because I haven't yet built up the strength and
> endurance I need.
>
> Anyway, I'd be very interested to know how you set up your gear, if
> you don't mind explaining or showing.
>
>
> B> AS a drumframe owner let me say a couple of things about it. I
> B> think the thing is simply wonderful whether or not a person has
> B> medical difficulties or not.
>
> I looked at it when buying my first drum kit a few weeks ago, and was
> quite intrigued, especially after having read words of praise for it
> that had been posted here in the past. Despite the hefty price tag,
> I was tempted. Here's the main thing that stopped me, though:
>
> Most of my drum instruction so far came during a one-week workshop last
> July (at Guitar Workshop Plus, in Oakville, Ontario, Canada, if anyone
> is interested -- I had a great time, and learned a lot). During that
> workshop, we had some "class hours" on our own kits, which were set up
> in the "drum room", and some hours playing with other people, on drum
> kits set up in two other rooms. That suggested to me that I had better
> be able to play on a "standard" set-up, since I might not always be
> playing my own kit. I was concerned that if I learn on a DrumFrame,
> I might have difficulty adapting to a regular set-up.
>
> So for now, I've decided to go with standard mounts, and once (if ever!) I
> get beyond the "beginner" stage and I'm more confident in my ability to
> adapt quickly from one situation to another, I might look more seriously
> at the DrumFrame.
>
> Ben, you say you play both types of set-up regularly. What is your
> experience in switching back and forth?
>
> B> The tilt back position is extremely comfortable
>
> Your neck doesn't get tired from holding your head up at that angle?
>
> B> It's kind of a matter of how you think. Most drummers (including
> B> me in pre-drumframe days) set up the kit [stands first]
> B> I respectfully submit that this thinking is ass-backwards! What you
> B> need to do is plop your butt on the throne (or in my case drumframe
> B> chair) and then start evaluating exactly WHERE you'd like each item
> B> to be in front of you.
>
> I tried that a while ago; I ended up with something really weird, and
> the drums were too far apart. The sizes (depths) of the drums alone,
> even if I could suspend them with a magical anti-gravity system,
> impose some constraints, at least for a short person. A solution
> might be to decouple the pedal locations from the bass drum and hat
> locations (using a double BD pedal and a remote hihat pedal, for
> example), and have really thin toms (electronic?), but I'm not feeling
> quite that radical! Just "sending the bass drum away" would let me
> put my toms as low as I want them (well, until they crashed into the
> snare drum). Everything is just so darned big!
>
> The peanut gallery that wishes to point out that I'm just too darned
> small can keep its comments to itself. And kiddy sets, if they came
> in the appropriate quality, wouldn't satisfy my desire for a BIG bass
> drum sound.
>
> (The "really weird" part of my former set-up is that once I had the drums
> and cymbals in place, I was looking for somewhere to put a music stand,
> and I stuck it into the then-unused tom mount hole in the bass drum.
> It was funny while it lasted, and actually worked reasonably well,
> but that bass drum position prevented me from pulling the floor tom
> close enough, so it had to go.)
>
> Don't worry; I'll get this eventually. I'm stubborn. :-)
>
>
> Anne.
> --
> Ms. Anne Bennett, Senior Sysadmin, ENCS, Concordia University, Montreal
H3G 1M8
> anne@encs.concordia.ca +1 514 848-2424
x2285

[Anne Bennett]

Pete Pemberton <bfpemberton@fuse.net> writes:
>
> Another kit to look at are the 'short stack' kits, where the toms ARE
> thinner than normal. I know DW had a kit like this, but it shouldn't be too
> hard to modify any kit with a bandsaw, drill press, and router and the
> expertise to run them, so long as the drums don't have reinforcing rings.

!!!

The toms sound rather nice as they are; I'd hesitate to lose
resonance by making them shallower. Not to mention that the idea of
cutting up my beautiful drumset: eek! Not to mention that it would wreck
the "fade" finish...

Let's just say that for now I'll keep trying to adjust the set! :-)
It's actually quite playable now, just probably not optimal.

> You mentioned endurance, this kind of sounds like you are working too hard
> to be able to play. Just a question, do you use alot of whole arm motion, or
> mostly just forearm and wrist motion?

I'm trying for wrist only (well, and some arm and forearm motion to
change drums); I'm definitely not flailing around. Economy of motion
and all that. The thing that gets tired first is my right leg, and
part of that may just be that I'm not in shape. Sometimes my right
hand gets a bit tired if I play the hats hard for too long, probably
because I'm not keeping the hand relaxed enough to cushion the blows.
That's pretty much it; physically, the rest of me feels fine so far.
Mentally, keeping that focus is not easy, but it's improving with
practice.

> What is your set up now?

Well, it's a standard five-piece set, in roughly the standard layout.
I sit somewhat higher than "thighs horizontal" to make it easier to
play the kick drum. I'm facing the snare drum, which tilts *very*
slightly away from me, and whose height is such that when the tops of my
arms are hanging loosely along my body, and my hands are in a relaxed
orientation co-linear with my forearms, then my forearms-and-hands are
pointing somewhat downwards from the horizontal, but my hands are not
touching my thighs when in playing position. (Whew!)

My bass drum is significantly offcenter from the snare. I tried to
position it to put the pedal in a comfortable place, but my foot is still
at an angle on the pedal -- when I tried turning the bass drum enough
to make the pedal line up with my foot (which points out a fair bit),
the bass drum was way to the right, and I couldn't pull the large tom
close enough for comfort.

Despite this, I am still able to place my two small toms (which are
on mounts that stick up from the bass drum) in a reasonable position,
though because of the height of the bass drum (22" diameter), the toms
are a little bit higher than I'd prefer. It's not really a problem,
and the three toms form a pretty smooth arc, so I can move along them
without sudden jerky motions. In terms of distance, because my arms
are short, my playing position for the smallest tom has my arms almost
fully extended, I bend my arms a bit to play the middle tom, and my
elbows are clearly bent when I play the biggest tom. The biggest tom is
lower than the other two to help maintain that smooth arc motion when
I move from one to the next. I have tried to angle the toms so that
the batter heads are almost parallel to my forearm-and-hand-and-stick,
but with a little additional tilt towards me to clear the rims.

The hat pedal position is symmetrical to the position of the bass drum
pedal, but unlike the case for the bass drum, I was able to orient the
hat pedal so that my foot rests straight on it. The hats themselves are
my handspan up from the top of the snare (7.5" approx), and at about
10 o'clock from the snare drum (assuming I am facing noon). Viewed
from above, the hats and snare do not overlap, but they'd just touch.
I'm still experimenting with the placement of the crashes and ride, but
those are easy to change around fairly independently of everything else.

Really my biggest struggle is the bass drum and snare position. Once
I'm happy with those, assuming I'm willing to live with the toms a
little high (and I am), the rest is not hard.


Anne.
--
Ms. Anne Bennett, Senior Sysadmin, ENCS, Concordia University, Montreal H3G 1M8
anne@encs.concordia.ca +1 514 848-2424 x2285

[Pete Pemberton]

"Anne Bennett" <anne@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote in message
news:bi1adf$1mh$1@newsflash.concordia.ca...
> Pete Pemberton <bfpemberton@fuse.net> writes:
> >
> > Another kit to look at are the 'short stack' kits, where the toms ARE
> > thinner than normal. I know DW had a kit like this, but it shouldn't be
too
> > hard to modify any kit with a bandsaw, drill press, and router and the
> > expertise to run them, so long as the drums don't have reinforcing
rings.
>
> !!!
>
> The toms sound rather nice as they are; I'd hesitate to lose
> resonance by making them shallower.

This is not the case, from what I have heard.

PP

[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

Anne Bennett <anne@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:

> I'm trying for wrist only (well, and some arm and forearm motion to
> change drums); I'm definitely not flailing around. Economy of motion
> and all that. The thing that gets tired first is my right leg, and
> part of that may just be that I'm not in shape.

Yep. The standard thing. Practice!

> Sometimes my right
> hand gets a bit tired if I play the hats hard for too long, probably
> because I'm not keeping the hand relaxed enough to cushion the blows.

So if you right hand gets tired playing the hat, play it with your
left! :-) And practice!

> That's pretty much it; physically, the rest of me feels fine so far.
> Mentally, keeping that focus is not easy, but it's improving with
> practice.

Practice!

And let me say that since practice is so important, it's not a good
idea to do as my beginners do and practice like mad on a kit
that's set up all inconvenient. Just ingrains bad habits. Take
time to get at least a passable setup and then dig in!

>> What is your set up now?
> Well, it's a standard five-piece set, in roughly the standard layout.
> I sit somewhat higher than "thighs horizontal" to make it easier to
> play the kick drum. I'm facing the snare drum, which tilts *very*
> slightly away from me, and whose height is such that when the tops of my
> arms are hanging loosely along my body, and my hands are in a relaxed
> orientation co-linear with my forearms, then my forearms-and-hands are
> pointing somewhat downwards from the horizontal, but my hands are not
> touching my thighs when in playing position. (Whew!)

Whoa someone else set up "old School"!!! Not bad is it? I don't sit
quite so high these days because I found sitting lower made life
much easier on my right leg. However, you have this compromise
thing because of the limit of how low you can make the toms go.

In my case when my hands drop so the fingers under the sticks
just "brush" the tops of my thighs THAT is the spot for a PERFECT
rim shop. It gives me tactile feedback and works great.

Benj
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