baffled by inability to record via soundcard

[fred]

Sorry if this has been covered before but I'm a bit baffled. I can't
get any signal from mic, guitar, or preamp plugged into my soundcard.
Can't record anything, can't hear anything.

I've tried 2 different pc's now. I've checked all the cords, verified
that my 1/4" f to 1/8" m adapter is good, and toggled all the software
configs I can think of. Yes the soundcards are functioning in as much
as you can listen to audio with them. One card shows up as a "Sound
Max Digital Audio" (an ESS of some type?) and the other machine I
tried had an SB16.

I've tried plugging the guitar straight into both mic and line in
jacks. Have tried micing the amp and plugging the mic into the mic
jack. No luck either way. Using windows NT and 2000. Have verified
that the playback and record dialogs show both mic and line, that they
are selected, and that nothing is muted.

Must be missing something obvious and stupid. Any suggestions please?

Thanks

fredward

[Nil]

On 14 Aug 2003, gimme_my_free_email@yahoo.com (fred) wrote in
news:cbde5a73.0308141715.7ed18094@posting.google.c om:

> I've tried plugging the guitar straight into both mic and line in
> jacks. Have tried micing the amp and plugging the mic into the
> mic jack. No luck either way. Using windows NT and 2000. Have
> verified that the playback and record dialogs show both mic and
> line, that they are selected, and that nothing is muted.

You didn't mention one of the most important parts of the equation:
what recording software are you trying to use?

Is there a mixer applet? Most consumer sound cards have use their own
or use Windows built-in Volume Control. Look at it and make sure the
input is enabled.

[ryanm]

"fred" <gimme_my_free_email@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbde5a73.0308141715.7ed18094@posting.google.c om...
>
> I've tried plugging the guitar straight into both mic and line in
> jacks.
>
Neither a guitar or a mic will produce line level signal on their own,
you need some kind of amp to bring it up to line level. You can try using a
direct out from your guitar amp if it has one (not a speaker out, but an
effects send or direct send), but it will be preamp only so it won't sound
the same as the amp does live. Your best bet is to get a small mixer with
preamps (ghost power), like a Behrenger 4 channel which you can find on Ebay
for <$100 (<$50 many times), mic your amp, and run the signal through the
mixer with the ghost power on.

I don't know why you wouldn't get signal from your mic input, except
that most sound cards are very cheap and the onboard amp is generally almost
worthless. You may not be pushing enough signal for even the mic input to
recognize it, or it may simply be installed improperly or broken. A good
test is to get one of those cheap computer mics and plug that into the mic
input and try recording yourself talking into it. If that doesn't work, then
there's either something wrong with your soundcard, the soundcard is
installed wrong, or there is something wrong with your software.

In windows, you will need to double click the little speaker icon in
your system tray, click on the options menu, and select "Recording Controls"
or something similar (the labels will vary slightly between different
versions of Windows), so that you can see the input gain controls for your
mic and line inputs. The controls that come up when you just double click on
the speaker are the output controls, not the input controls.

ryanm

[fred]

Really haven't chosen one yet since I'm just starting to mess about
with pc recording (or trying at least) but currently using demo
version of N-Track.

Yes I've checked the mixer applets and mic and line both enabled.

Nil <rednoise0@lycos.com> wrote in message news:<Xns93D7ECE75513Anilch1@204.127.204.17>...
>
> You didn't mention one of the most important parts of the equation:
> what recording software are you trying to use?
>
> Is there a mixer applet? Most consumer sound cards have use their own
> or use Windows built-in Volume Control. Look at it and make sure the
> input is enabled.

[fred]

OK, that's what I was guessing might be the problem. Perhaps the
guitar, mic, and preamp out of the amp have impedance too great to be
compatible with the soundcard?

The amp does have a preamp out, which I've tried using, also
unsuccessfully.

I suspected I would need to run things through a mixer and then run
from the mixer into the soundcard but had heard that other folks had
been able to just plug a guitar or mic right into the card. Thought
I'd start there just for the hell of it.

Good point about the cheap pc mic. I'll see if I can't rustle up one
of those, give it a try, and if I can get a signal out of that I can
conclude that a mixer is needed to use guitar or real mic.

Any tips of choosing a mixer? Looking at the behringer euroracks on
ebay...

Thanky!

"ryanm" <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote in message news:<vjopr7g1dvp659@corp.supernews.com>...
> "fred" <gimme_my_free_email@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:cbde5a73.0308141715.7ed18094@posting.google.c om...
> >
> > I've tried plugging the guitar straight into both mic and line in
> > jacks.
> >
> Neither a guitar or a mic will produce line level signal on their own,
> you need some kind of amp to bring it up to line level. You can try using a
> direct out from your guitar amp if it has one (not a speaker out, but an
> effects send or direct send), but it will be preamp only so it won't sound
> the same as the amp does live. Your best bet is to get a small mixer with
> preamps (ghost power), like a Behrenger 4 channel which you can find on Ebay
> for <$100 (<$50 many times), mic your amp, and run the signal through the
> mixer with the ghost power on.
>
> I don't know why you wouldn't get signal from your mic input, except
> that most sound cards are very cheap and the onboard amp is generally almost
> worthless. You may not be pushing enough signal for even the mic input to
> recognize it, or it may simply be installed improperly or broken. A good
> test is to get one of those cheap computer mics and plug that into the mic
> input and try recording yourself talking into it. If that doesn't work, then
> there's either something wrong with your soundcard, the soundcard is
> installed wrong, or there is something wrong with your software.
>
> In windows, you will need to double click the little speaker icon in
> your system tray, click on the options menu, and select "Recording Controls"
> or something similar (the labels will vary slightly between different
> versions of Windows), so that you can see the input gain controls for your
> mic and line inputs. The controls that come up when you just double click on
> the speaker are the output controls, not the input controls.
>
> ryanm

[fred]

Would a behringer mx602A eurorack be sufficient?

"ryanm" <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote in message
>Your best bet is to get a small mixer with
> preamps (ghost power), like a Behrenger 4 channel which you can find on Ebay
> for <$100 (<$50 many times), mic your amp, and run the signal through the
> mixer with the ghost power on.

[Nil]

On 15 Aug 2003, gimme_my_free_email@yahoo.com (fred) wrote in
news:cbde5a73.0308150833.59bd04b7@posting.google.c om:

> OK, that's what I was guessing might be the problem. Perhaps the
> guitar, mic, and preamp out of the amp have impedance too great to
> be compatible with the soundcard?

I don't think that's your basic problem, although you eventually will
want a preamp of some sort. But even if the impedence of the guitar's
signal wasn't optimum, you should get SOME sound of some kind, even if
it sounds like poo. I think your problem is elsewhere. Did you check
the mixer applet to see if the imputs were enabled?

[Nil]

On 15 Aug 2003, gimme_my_free_email@yahoo.com (fred) wrote in
news:cbde5a73.0308150826.4f3d0e35@posting.google.c om:

> Really haven't chosen one yet since I'm just starting to mess
> about with pc recording (or trying at least) but currently using
> demo version of N-Track.

OK. I figured you had to have had a recording program, otherwise how
would you know if you getting a signal or not.

I don't know n-track, but perhaps you haven't set up the inputs
correctly? Is the track set up to record from your preferred sound
card? Also, you may need to "arm" the track in n-track in order to be
ready to record.

I use Cakewalk Sonar and Cool Edit Pro. The basic procedure is similar,
but the details are slightly different.

Another thing occurs to me - some older sound cards didn't have true
bi-directional operation. IOW, They weren't really made to record while
playing, although there was a built-in workaround, like playing at a
lower bit-rate while recording. I wonder if the SB16 is of that ilk.
Not sure how that would affect your situation, tho.

Are you sure you've got the latest drivers available for the card?

Have you checked Windows Device Manager to make sure the cards are
installed and fully funtional?

I'm running out of ideas here.

Maybe there's an n-track users forum where you could get better
explicit advice for that program.

Maybe you could download the demo version of Cool Edit from
http://www.syntrillium.com/ just to make sure it's not n-track that's
confusing the issue.

> Yes I've checked the mixer applets and mic and line both enabled.

OK. Scratch that question in my other message.

[fred]

Another question. What about if I bought a Line 6 POD or some other
preamp? Would you expect I would be able to plug that right into the
card and get a signal? Would a mixer then still be needed?

Nil <rednoise0@lycos.com> wrote in message > input is enabled.

[Nil]

On 15 Aug 2003, gimme_my_free_email@yahoo.com (fred) wrote in
news:cbde5a73.0308150916.305405ae@posting.google.c om:

> Another question. What about if I bought a Line 6 POD or some other
> preamp? Would you expect I would be able to plug that right into the
> card and get a signal? Would a mixer then still be needed?

A mixer is probably not required with that setup. The POD puts out a
line level signal, and should be suitable for the line-in on the sound
card.

You should still think about a mixer for later, so you can mix 'n match
a variety of sources (mics, POD, direct, etc.) and fine-tune the levels
going into the sound card. You get much more flexibility.

[ryanm]

"fred" <gimme_my_free_email@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbde5a73.0308150837.154a0740@posting.google.c om...
> Would a behringer mx602A eurorack be sufficient?
>
It should. I don't know the specs of that mixer, but as long as it has
ghost power you should be able to use any mic to mic an instrument and then
pass the signal to your sound card.

ryanm

[ryanm]

"fred" <gimme_my_free_email@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbde5a73.0308150833.59bd04b7@posting.google.c om...
>
> The amp does have a preamp out, which I've tried using, also
> unsuccessfully.
>
It sounds to me like your sound card is either broken or not installed
properly. With a line out from an amp you should be able to get a signal,
even if it sounds like crap. At this point, without being able to actually
sit down at your computer and throuble shoot it, I would say you should
probably uninstall and reinstall your sound card. NT and 2k were notorious
for sound driver problems, so the uninstall may require you to go into your
inf folder and delete the sound card inf files, otherwise Windows sometimes
won't load new drivers, but will continue to use the old drivers even after
an uninstall/reinstall. Or, if you have the money, go spend $40 on a new SB
Live and hopefully that will fix all of your problems.

A POD, by the way, would do the same thing as your direct out on your
amp, only it would probably sound better because the POD simulates speaker
distortion, etc for you. It won't sound as good as a good amp with a good
mic in front of it, but for a couple hundred bucks you can get the little
POD stomp box and get a pretty decent sound.

It all comes down to how much you want to spend.

ryanm

[Dave]

On 14 Aug 2003 18:15:48 -0700, gimme_my_free_email@yahoo.com (fred)
wrote:

>I've tried 2 different pc's now. I've checked all the cords, verified
>that my 1/4" f to 1/8" m adapter is good,

I had the same problem (no sound), and here is what solved it for me:

My soundcard line in, would only work with a stereo (not mono) 1/8"
plug.

So, from the mono line-out on my amp, I plugged the 1/4" mono male
into an adapter (1/4" mono female with a 1/4" stereo male), and from
there, into another adapter (1/4" stereo female with a 1/8" stereo
male) into the soundcard.

(Note - plugging the 1/4" mono male into the 1/4" stereo female
wouldn't work, which is why I had to use the 1st adapter, which is
mono on one end and stereo on the other).

I could have accomplished the same thing with just one adapter instead
of two, if it was 1/4" mono female and 1/8" stereo male, but I
couldn't find one like that, so I had to use 2 adapters.

Dunno if that would help your situation, but it's the only way I could
get mine to work.

Dave

[ryanm]

"Dave" <AR@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:sqnqjvot2ohavnbn5k59sfm6h12i27umir@4ax.com...
>
> I could have accomplished the same thing with just one adapter instead
> of two, if it was 1/4" mono female and 1/8" stereo male, but I
> couldn't find one like that, so I had to use 2 adapters.
>
You can do the same by plugging an 1/8" mono cable in only half way.

ryanm

[fred]

Thanks fellas for your help. I picked up a small behringer mixer over
the weekend along with some adapters. Problem solved! The control
room out L and R from the mixer go into an adapter w/ 2 female 1/4" to
a single stereo 1/8" male. Works like a charm.

Thanks!