Miking an upright piano

[Mainlander]

Under the lid or around the back?

[Kenny]

Hello,

an upright piano has a vertical panel under the keyboard that is removable.
This will expose the strings to the front. I like to put a mic down below
and
if you want to use two mics then open the lid of the upright and place a mic
over the top too.

Listen while someone plays the piano and move your head all around.
Your ears should find some sweet spots where the sound comes together.
those are the places the mics should be...

have fun,

Kenny



"Mainlander" <*@*.*> wrote in message
news:MPG.19a9b5ebad1e7cdb989b88@news.paradise.net. nz...
> Under the lid or around the back?

[Mike Caffrey]

In article <MPG.19a9b5ebad1e7cdb989b88@news.paradise.net.nz>, Mainlander
<*@*.*> wrote:

> Under the lid or around the back?

It really depends on the sound you are looking for. Try some 87s or
TLM103s or anything really and put the 6-8 feet away form the piano, 6-8
feet apar. I like a little 1176 compression and a good pre.

If you miking from within the piano, try some PZMs.

Also, you probably don't need to pan these tracks wide, but you can if
there' not too much else going on.



www.monsterisland.com

[Scott Dorsey]

In article <MPG.19a9b5ebad1e7cdb989b88@news.paradise.net.nz>,
Mainlander <*@*.*> wrote:
>Under the lid or around the back?

Depends on the piano. And whether it's for PA or recording. And whether
you want to emphasize the clankiness or not. And whether you can take the
front off easily.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[ScotFraser]

<< Under the lid or around the back?
>>

Take the front panels off, both above & below the keyboard & mic it from the
players side. I usually go under the keyboard, but some uprights sound better
miked above the keyboard. The important thing is to get the panelling out of
the way so the mics are seeing soundboard.


Scott Fraser

[hollywood_steve]

A quick question about mic'ing the lower front panel... Doesn't the
mic pick up a lot of foot noise? I haven't met too many piano players
(classical players excepted) who keep their feet steady when not using
the pedals. In my experience, most tap (slam?) their feet loudly
along with the music.

or am I looking at the wrong side of the piano? (FYI, I've used a
simple XY pair about 6ft away and got good results. I've always found
a piano to need several feet of distance before it sounds right. Even
without a mic, just placing your ear near the piano and then walking
away, it takes 5 or 6 ft before it sounds "right". And I like XY
because it helps me avoid that unnatural 20ft wide piano that shows up
on so many recordings.)

steve
lex125@pacbell.net
www.lexington125.com

[Mike Rivers]

In article <55147cb4.0308171452.7321afbd@posting.google.com> sjp@soca.com writes:

> A quick question about mic'ing the lower front panel... Doesn't the
> mic pick up a lot of foot noise?

More than it it was at the top, but it also picks up more piano sound.
You have to move it around so that you get what you want, and as
little as possible as what you don't want. You could put a carpet
down there to keep the feet quieter. And look at the bright side. That
noise is organic. Don't try too hard to get rid of it.

> I've always found
> a piano to need several feet of distance before it sounds right.

I don't think that anyone here will disagree with that, but suppose
the piano player wants to sing while playing? It's the rare singing
pianist who can get a good natural balance between the voice and
insturument, and if you close-mic the voice, you'll have problems with
it combining with its leakage into the distant mics.

Engineers find solutions to these problems, but it's not always the
same solution. Depends on lotsa stuff.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)

[John Cafarella]

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1061169028k@trad...
> Engineers find solutions to these problems, but it's not always the
> same solution. Depends on lotsa stuff.

> I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)

I know this sounds obvious, but it's REALLY important to make sure the piano
isn't against a wall.
--
John Cafarella
End Of the Road Studio
Melbourne, Australia

[ScotFraser]

<< A quick question about mic'ing the lower front panel... Doesn't the
mic pick up a lot of foot noise? >>

That's more a player problem than a recording problem. Haven't really run into,
though I almost never have to record upright anymore. I find the often very
funky damper pedal mechanism to be more of a problem.

<<or am I looking at the wrong side of the piano? >>

No, that's the right side.

<< (FYI, I've used a
simple XY pair about 6ft away and got good results. I've always found
a piano to need several feet of distance before it sounds right. >>

Yup, depending on the room.

<< Even
without a mic, just placing your ear near the piano and then walking
away, it takes 5 or 6 ft before it sounds "right". And I like XY
because it helps me avoid that unnatural 20ft wide piano that shows up
on so many recordings.)
>>

Not sure what acoustic concept inspired the approach of putting one mic 6" from
the strings, & the other 6" from the strings, but 4 feet distant from the other
mic. Maybe the mistaken notion that treble comes from the area under the treble
strings & bass comes from the area under the bass strings.


Scott Fraser

[Reid Rejsa]

In article <MPG.19a9b5ebad1e7cdb989b88@news.paradise.net.nz>,
Mainlander <*@*.*> wrote:

> Under the lid or around the back?

I've done some miking of an upright in an orchestra pit using two PZM's
mounted on tabletop desk stands using butterfly clamp mic clips on the
XLR's. The PZM's were vertical facing the soundboard about 6" away. It
worked great.

Reid

[LeBaron & Alrich]

John Cafarella <zafarellaj@powertel.com.au> wrote:

> "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:znr1061169028k@trad...

> > Engineers find solutions to these problems, but it's not always the
> > same solution. Depends on lotsa stuff.

> > I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)

> I know this sounds obvious, but it's REALLY important to make sure the piano
> isn't against a wall.

Except when that's how to get the sound you're after. Sometimes an
upright piano that is lacking in low end extension will smooth out
nicely down there when placed against a wall. In my music room there are
several wall options and we were fascinated one day by the change in
piano sound when we'd moved the instrument. (And I don't mean change of
its state of tune. <g>)

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

[John Cafarella]

"LeBaron & Alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1g031sa.1yo9oct1f4su5kN%walkinay@thegrid.net. ..
> John Cafarella <zafarellaj@powertel.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> > I know this sounds obvious, but it's REALLY important to make sure the
piano
> > isn't against a wall.
>
> Except when that's how to get the sound you're after. Sometimes an
> upright piano that is lacking in low end extension will smooth out
> nicely down there when placed against a wall.

Cool, I can imagine how that could help. The first time I recorded an
upright, I didn't even consider that the piano was coupling to the wall
until the second last song. I kicked myself.

>In my music room there are
> several wall options and we were fascinated one day by the change in
> piano sound when we'd moved the instrument. (And I don't mean change of
> its state of tune. <g>)

Yup, MUCH more tonal difference than what you'd think. The particular
pianos I've been involved with sounded horribly boxy when against the wall.
I usually pull the piano out from the wall about 8" at a time, until it
sounds nice. It often ends up about 2-3 ft out.
--
John Cafarella
End Of the Road Studio
Melbourne, Australia

[LeBaron & Alrich]

John Cafarella <zafarellaj@powertel.com.au> wrote:

> The particular
> pianos I've been involved with sounded horribly boxy when against the wall.
> I usually pull the piano out from the wall about 8" at a time, until it
> sounds nice. It often ends up about 2-3 ft out.

And sometimes it's nice to angle them vis a vis the wall, instead of
keeping the rear of the soundboard parallel.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"