Using Automotive Speakers For Bass Guitar Amp

[Rod Onotera]

I'm no musician but I dabble in electronics. My son (the musician) needs a
bass cab and we're considering making one as a project.
I'm finding that the guitar speakers (Eminence, Celestion etc) are a little
pricey and a bit hard to get here.
What would be the group's opinion on using one or two car audio subwoofer(s)
such as a Cerwin Vega HED-12 perhaps with a midrange?
Freq Resp 20-500 Hz 200 watts RMS 4 ohms
We're running a Traynor Mono Block into it (250 watts RMS @ 4 ohms)
Rod

[Les Cargill]

Rod Onotera wrote:
>
> I'm no musician but I dabble in electronics. My son (the musician) needs a
> bass cab and we're considering making one as a project.
> I'm finding that the guitar speakers (Eminence, Celestion etc) are a little
> pricey and a bit hard to get here.
> What would be the group's opinion on using one or two car audio subwoofer(s)
> such as a Cerwin Vega HED-12 perhaps with a midrange?
> Freq Resp 20-500 Hz 200 watts RMS 4 ohms
> We're running a Traynor Mono Block into it (250 watts RMS @ 4 ohms)
> Rod

I'm quite skeptical that it'll work. I've hooked up a couple of
car stereo drivers to a bass amp and was disappointed.

For inexpensive raw driver stock, Carvin has some stuff available:

http://carvin.com/cgi-bin/Isearch.exe?P1=RSPK

--
Les Cargill

[T-Bone]

"Rod Onotera" <ronotera@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:UGE%a.748361$3C2.17348894@news3.calgary.shaw. ca...
> I'm no musician but I dabble in electronics. My son (the musician) needs a
> bass cab and we're considering making one as a project.
> I'm finding that the guitar speakers (Eminence, Celestion etc) are a
little
> pricey and a bit hard to get here.
> What would be the group's opinion on using one or two car audio
subwoofer(s)
> such as a Cerwin Vega HED-12 perhaps with a midrange?

Recorded audio is compressed. Speakers designed for playback of recorded
audio usually won't handle the dynamic range of "live" input.
Dorgan

['nuther Bob]

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 06:45:53 -0400, "T-Bone" <dorgan@fltg.net> wrote:


>Recorded audio is compressed. Speakers designed for playback of recorded
>audio usually won't handle the dynamic range of "live" input.
>Dorgan

Not that I'm a doubting Thomas (or Bob, as the case may be) but
it seems like the auto speakers would cover the part of the audio
spectrum that you can hear without difficulty (based on spec's)
although there might be something you can feel that a normal
speaker wouldn't reproduce. Do you have any references that would
back up your theory on "range" ?

I'm not arguing that speakers designed for the job of playing bass
would not be better, just wondering how what you said about "range"
could be true.

Bob

[Charlie Escher]

'nuther Bob wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 06:45:53 -0400, "T-Bone" <dorgan@fltg.net> wrote:

>
>>Recorded audio is compressed. Speakers designed for playback of recorded
>>audio usually won't handle the dynamic range of "live" input.
>>Dorgan

> Not that I'm a doubting Thomas (or Bob, as the case may be) but
> it seems like the auto speakers would cover the part of the audio
> spectrum that you can hear without difficulty (based on spec's)
> although there might be something you can feel that a normal
> speaker wouldn't reproduce. Do you have any references that would
> back up your theory on "range" ?
>
> I'm not arguing that speakers designed for the job of playing bass
> would not be better, just wondering how what you said about "range"
> could be true.

That's dynamic range he's talking about, and he's right. All you need to
do is look at the sensitivity ratings for the speakers in question to
verify this. A good 12" or 15" bass speaker will often spec around
100dB/1 watt/1 meter. Cheap car stereo speakers rarely do this, AFAIK.
They may easily require 10 times the power input to achieve the same
sound pressure level. When you're talking the difference between 200
watts and 2000 to get to 120dB (for example), you're likely to surpass
the max power rating, dig?

But your question about frequency response is relevant as well. Bass
instrument speakers are voiced to get your bass into the mix in a way
that lets you sit below and maybe also above vocals, guitars, keys, etc.
They make no pretense of being flat. Car stereo woofers are built to
work with the resonant peak of your car interior, which requires a very
different voicing. They also are often designed for short-throw
cabinets, which are generally a poor choice for live use on stage. The
ones designed for bandpass cabs are worse yet; a one note thump is not
good for most bass players.

As far as the original poster: since you're going to spend at least as
much as it'll cost you to buy a decent bass cab, go for a real bass
driver. You'll soon end up doing that anyway, IMO. Eminence makes plenty
of inexpensive bass drivers which work very well. Ther's plenty of free
cabinet design software on the web. Run a few simulations for those car
speakers, versus some real bass drivers. You'll quickly see why you
should invest in one of those.


.cE

[Rod Onotera]

Thanks guys...points well taken.
I guess it stands to reason
guitar speakers are designed for their intended use.
Rod

"Charlie Escher" <charliejane@gorge.net> wrote in message
news:vjv9pm8i5ina4e@corp.supernews.com...
> 'nuther Bob wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 06:45:53 -0400, "T-Bone" <dorgan@fltg.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >>Recorded audio is compressed. Speakers designed for playback of recorded
> >>audio usually won't handle the dynamic range of "live" input.
> >>Dorgan
>
> > Not that I'm a doubting Thomas (or Bob, as the case may be) but
> > it seems like the auto speakers would cover the part of the audio
> > spectrum that you can hear without difficulty (based on spec's)
> > although there might be something you can feel that a normal
> > speaker wouldn't reproduce. Do you have any references that would
> > back up your theory on "range" ?
> >
> > I'm not arguing that speakers designed for the job of playing bass
> > would not be better, just wondering how what you said about "range"
> > could be true.
>
> That's dynamic range he's talking about, and he's right. All you need to
> do is look at the sensitivity ratings for the speakers in question to
> verify this. A good 12" or 15" bass speaker will often spec around
> 100dB/1 watt/1 meter. Cheap car stereo speakers rarely do this, AFAIK.
> They may easily require 10 times the power input to achieve the same
> sound pressure level. When you're talking the difference between 200
> watts and 2000 to get to 120dB (for example), you're likely to surpass
> the max power rating, dig?
>
> But your question about frequency response is relevant as well. Bass
> instrument speakers are voiced to get your bass into the mix in a way
> that lets you sit below and maybe also above vocals, guitars, keys, etc.
> They make no pretense of being flat. Car stereo woofers are built to
> work with the resonant peak of your car interior, which requires a very
> different voicing. They also are often designed for short-throw
> cabinets, which are generally a poor choice for live use on stage. The
> ones designed for bandpass cabs are worse yet; a one note thump is not
> good for most bass players.
>
> As far as the original poster: since you're going to spend at least as
> much as it'll cost you to buy a decent bass cab, go for a real bass
> driver. You'll soon end up doing that anyway, IMO. Eminence makes plenty
> of inexpensive bass drivers which work very well. Ther's plenty of free
> cabinet design software on the web. Run a few simulations for those car
> speakers, versus some real bass drivers. You'll quickly see why you
> should invest in one of those.
>
>
> .cE
>
>
>

[Kerry Maxwell]

"Charlie Escher" <charliejane@gorge.net> wrote in message
news:vjv9pm8i5ina4e@corp.supernews.com...
> 'nuther Bob wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 06:45:53 -0400, "T-Bone" <dorgan@fltg.net>
wrote:
>
> >
<snip>

> That's dynamic range he's talking about, and he's right. All you need
to
> do is look at the sensitivity ratings for the speakers in question to
> verify this. A good 12" or 15" bass speaker will often spec around
> 100dB/1 watt/1 meter. Cheap car stereo speakers rarely do this, AFAIK.
> They may easily require 10 times the power input to achieve the same
> sound pressure level. When you're talking the difference between 200
> watts and 2000 to get to 120dB (for example), you're likely to surpass
> the max power rating, dig?
>

I have been curious to try some *insensitive* car speakers with my
guitar amp since I heard that Derek Trucks runs Pyle Drivers in his
Super. Seems similar to running an attenuator.

Kerry M

[Charlie Escher]

Kerry Maxwell wrote:
> "Charlie Escher" <charliejane@gorge.net> wrote in message
>
>>That's dynamic range he's talking about, and he's right. All you need
> to
>>do is look at the sensitivity ratings for the speakers in question to
>>verify this. A good 12" or 15" bass speaker will often spec around
>>100dB/1 watt/1 meter. Cheap car stereo speakers rarely do this, AFAIK.
>>They may easily require 10 times the power input to achieve the same
>>sound pressure level. When you're talking the difference between 200
>>watts and 2000 to get to 120dB (for example), you're likely to surpass
>>the max power rating, dig?
>>
> I have been curious to try some *insensitive* car speakers with my
> guitar amp since I heard that Derek Trucks runs Pyle Drivers in his
> Super. Seems similar to running an attenuator.

For guitar, that can work quite well, if you can find drivers voiced in
a way that you like. The difference between my old Jensen C12Ns and my
EVMs was quite useful for letting my 60 watt tube head light up a bit.

For bass guitar, with only 200 watts like the OP mentioned, prolly not
so hot though.


--.cE

[Jon]

That's exactly what my nephew uses, works fine for him.

Rod Onotera wrote:

> I'm no musician but I dabble in electronics. My son (the musician) needs a
> bass cab and we're considering making one as a project.
> I'm finding that the guitar speakers (Eminence, Celestion etc) are a little
> pricey and a bit hard to get here.
> What would be the group's opinion on using one or two car audio subwoofer(s)
> such as a Cerwin Vega HED-12 perhaps with a midrange?
> Freq Resp 20-500 Hz 200 watts RMS 4 ohms
> We're running a Traynor Mono Block into it (250 watts RMS @ 4 ohms)
> Rod