Redbook CD/Firewire Drive/Mac [Archive]

EggHd

08-21-2003, 09:59 AM

<< Is there anyway to brun a rebook standard CD with an internal or firewire
drive using a Mac? >>

I burn discs with Jam on a firewire drive and a mac.

<< Iv'e heard that Jam does not burn redbook standad CDs and Toast doesn't
allow you to tweak the P&Q codes. >>

I have not heard that. I used to use Jam 2.6 and now use the Jam 5 and Toast
combo. Works great. I have recently sent discs to EMI, Sony, BMG and
Universal plants that were all accepted and released, so something must be
working.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-21-2003, 01:44 PM

You can get aPCI SCSI card for next to nothing nowadaze. Assuming your
G4 isn't a powerbook or ibook, and assuming you already own MLCD,
that's probably the cheapes way to go.

On the other hand, I'd be surprised if a disc written by Jam isn't
replicator-ready. There may be some index manipulation that you can't
do as well as with MLCD, but that's about it.

ulysses

In article <mike-2108030414090001@mcaff.dialup.access.net>, Mike
Caffrey <mike@monsterisland.com> wrote:

> Is there anyway to brun a rebook standard CD with an internal or firewire
> drive using a Mac? I can do ithe with MasterList CD and a SCSI drive but
> Iv'e heard that Jam does not burn redbook standad CDs and Toast doesn't
> allow you to tweak the P&Q codes. what can I use on a G4 running 9.2?

EggHd

08-21-2003, 01:53 PM

<< There may be some index manipulation that you can't do as well as with
MLCD, but that's about it. >>

MLCD is a very cool program and compared to Jam you nailed it. Of course Digi
doesn't support MLCD anymore.

Also a goofy part of Jam (that I find goofy, anyway) is on the PQ sheet, you
can't rename the song titles like you can in MLCD. THAT sucks.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Chris Smalt

08-21-2003, 02:38 PM

Mike Caffrey <mike@monsterisland.com> wrote:

> Is there anyway to brun a rebook standard CD with an internal or firewire
> drive using a Mac? I can do ithe with MasterList CD and a SCSI drive but
> Iv'e heard that Jam does not burn redbook standad CDs and Toast doesn't
> allow you to tweak the P&Q codes. what can I use on a G4 running 9.2?

Which PQ codes would you like to tweak? Jam and Toast both make CDs
that are acceptable for replication, only Toast can't create a PQ list
as is usually required by the plant. You can also look into Waveburner
by Emagic. Its user interface is a bit like Sonic Solutions, and it can
work with VST plugins. I don't know why it hardly gets mentioned.

Chris

EggHd

08-21-2003, 03:23 PM

<< Which PQ codes would you like to tweak? >>

Index points are faster in MLCD.

<< You can also look into Waveburner
by Emagic. Its user interface is a bit like Sonic Solutions, and it can
work with VST plugins. >>

Is it still being made?

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

EggHd

08-21-2003, 07:34 PM

<< ou can also look into Waveburner
by Emagic. Its user interface is a bit like Sonic Solutions, and it can
work with VST plugins. >>

How do you see it being anything like Sonic?

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-21-2003, 08:47 PM

Chris Smalt <smalt@wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> You can also look into Waveburner
> by Emagic. Its user interface is a bit like Sonic Solutions, and it can
> work with VST plugins. I don't know why it hardly gets mentioned.

The version I looked at only supports SCSI burners, and only particular
models, which is exactly the same problem MLCD has. Other than that,
the only real difference seems to be the interface: Lists in MLCD, and
graphics in Waveburner Pro.

ulysses

david

08-21-2003, 11:41 PM

Mike Caffrey

08-22-2003, 02:27 AM

In article <20030821115930.21906.00001268@mb-m07.aol.com>, egghd@aol.com
(EggHd) wrote:

> << Is there anyway to brun a rebook standard CD with an internal or firewire
> drive using a Mac? >>
>
> I burn discs with Jam on a firewire drive and a mac.
>
> << Iv'e heard that Jam does not burn redbook standad CDs and Toast doesn't
> allow you to tweak the P&Q codes. >>
>
> I have not heard that. I used to use Jam 2.6 and now use the Jam 5 and Toast
> combo. Works great. I have recently sent discs to EMI, Sony, BMG and
> Universal plants that were all accepted and released, so something must be
> working.
>
>
That makes me very happy to hear. I don't know enough about this stage of
the process to know whether I can use Jam if people are going straight to
a plant with the CD.

Did your CDs go to a mastering engineer before the plant?

www.monsterisland.com

Mike Caffrey

08-22-2003, 02:30 AM

In article <210820031444132224%ulysses@rollmusic.com>, Justin Ulysses
Morse <ulysses@rollmusic.com> wrote:

> You can get aPCI SCSI card for next to nothing nowadaze. Assuming your
> G4 isn't a powerbook or ibook, and assuming you already own MLCD,
> that's probably the cheapes way to go.
>
> On the other hand, I'd be surprised if a disc written by Jam isn't
> replicator-ready. There may be some index manipulation that you can't
> do as well as with MLCD, but that's about it.
>
> ulysses
My new G4 won't start up with the my ATTO card in it. maybe I need to buy
a new card. This was suppsed to be a chep and easy upgrade, not a five day
battle that left me bleeding in three places with one permanent scar, and
an hour out of session a week later. I won the war, but definitely took
some casuaties during some of the battles. I'li never upgrade one piece of
a ProTools system, or even digital systme again.

www.monsterisland.com

Mike Caffrey

08-22-2003, 02:47 AM

In article <20030821155316.25480.00000370@mb-m15.aol.com>, egghd@aol.com
(EggHd) wrote:

> << There may be some index manipulation that you can't do as well as with
> MLCD, but that's about it. >>
>
> MLCD is a very cool program and compared to Jam you nailed it. Of course Digi
> doesn't support MLCD anymore.
>
> Also a goofy part of Jam (that I find goofy, anyway) is on the PQ sheet, you
> can't rename the song titles like you can in MLCD. THAT sucks.
>
>
Really? I haven't been able to burn with Jam and usually dont' ahve the
time for the labels, but it seemd easier that MLCD.

You can get additional validation disks from Digi that can be use with a
specifc type of USB Superdrive that requires specific drivers off the web.

Digi if you're reading this, since you're not selling it any more can you
cut out the security portion and make it free. Comeon it will get the Digi
band on everyon's computers.

Btw, if you are buying a Mac for anyting. Tekserve in NYC has the most
unbelieveble tech support. You probably don't need ot be NYC based for
purchases or the folling support. I don't think the give support if you're
not a customer. but boy did they got out of their way to help me get
everything running. They're also a ProTools dealer, but I think their
sales region has some limitations from Digi. I have no affiliation with
them, but I will definitley buy from they without bothering to shop
anywhere else. It's just safer. I also use the firewire drives that they
assemble exclusively.They cot about $15 extra, btu have been for more
reliabel than any other firewire drives I've used.

www.monsterisland.com

Mike Caffrey

08-22-2003, 03:10 AM

In article <1g02bym.e2aq741hfbbusN%smalt@wanadoo.nl>, smalt@wanadoo.nl
(Chris Smalt) wrote:

> Mike Caffrey <mike@monsterisland.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there anyway to brun a rebook standard CD with an internal or firewire
> > drive using a Mac? I can do ithe with MasterList CD and a SCSI drive but
> > Iv'e heard that Jam does not burn redbook standad CDs and Toast doesn't
> > allow you to tweak the P&Q codes. what can I use on a G4 running 9.2?
>
>
>
> Which PQ codes would you like to tweak? Jam and Toast both make CDs
> that are acceptable for replication, only Toast can't create a PQ list
> as is usually required by the plant. You can also look into Waveburner
> by Emagic. Its user interface is a bit like Sonic Solutions, and it can
> work with VST plugins. I don't know why it hardly gets mentioned.
>
>
> Chris

I've been doing live albums that are one solid audiofile and need PQ
codes. They get sent for mastering, but the deadlines are tight and the
P&Q codes have to be approved before they are sent for mastering.
Otheriwse I'd let the masting engineer deal with it.

www.monsterisland.com

Mike Caffrey

08-22-2003, 03:11 AM

In article <220820030141416082%ihate@spamo.com>, david <ihate@spamo.com> wrote:

> In article <210820031444132224%ulysses@rollmusic.com>, Justin Ulysses
> Morse <ulysses@rollmusic.com> wrote:
>
> > You can get aPCI SCSI card for next to nothing nowadaze. Assuming your
> > G4 isn't a powerbook or ibook, and assuming you already own MLCD,
> > that's probably the cheapes way to go.
>
>
> The ***** will be authorizing the hard drive without a floppy.
>
USB Superdrive and extentions you can find in the digidesign site.

www.monsterisland.com

Mike

08-22-2003, 05:20 AM

egghd@aol.com (EggHd) wrote in message news:<20030821172329.28386.00000337@mb-m18.aol.com>...
> << Which PQ codes would you like to tweak? >>
>
> Index points are faster in MLCD.
>
> << You can also look into Waveburner
> by Emagic. Its user interface is a bit like Sonic Solutions, and it can
> work with VST plugins. >>
>
> Is it still being made?
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> "I know enough to know I don't know enough"

It is definately still being made. I think the retail sale version is
simply called "Waveburner Pro" now.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

EggHd

08-22-2003, 10:03 AM

<< Did your CDs go to a mastering engineer before the plant? >>

No. Right from here to the plant.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

EggHd

08-22-2003, 10:13 AM

<< I've been doing live albums that are one solid audiofile and need PQ
codes. >>

I don't know what software you are using, but you could do this with regions in
Pro Tools and export to Jam or MLCD and I believe it will work.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-22-2003, 04:15 PM

Mike Caffrey <mike@monsterisland.com> wrote:

> I've been doing live albums that are one solid audiofile and need PQ
> codes. They get sent for mastering, but the deadlines are tight and the
> P&Q codes have to be approved before they are sent for mastering.
> Otheriwse I'd let the masting engineer deal with it.

This is essentially the way I like to work. I'm not usually doing live
work, but I like to edit an album together and really fine-tune the
segues before I start worrying about making CDs. So i bring a single
large file into MLCD and then add track numbers throughout that one
item. My brief dabbling with Jam gave me the impression you couldn't
do it with that program. Jam seems to insist that soundfiles and track
IDs coincide, which is moronic.

ulysses

EggHd

08-22-2003, 04:33 PM

<< So i bring a single
large file into MLCD and then add track numbers throughout that one
item. >>

Where do you work on the spacing?

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Chris Smalt

08-22-2003, 06:18 PM

Ulysses wrote:

> Jam seems to insist that soundfiles and track
> IDs coincide, which is moronic.

In theory you could load the same huge file as many times as there are
to be tracks, then edit the start and stop times - you *can* do that in
Jam, but it's not pretty.

Chris

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-23-2003, 03:29 AM

EggHd <egghd@aol.com> wrote:

> << So i bring a single
> large file into MLCD and then add track numbers throughout that one
> item. >>
>
> Where do you work on the spacing?

SoundDesigner II. I make a region for each song, put them all in a
playlist, then use the playlist nudge editor to get the crossfades just
right. I'm into matching (or blending) roomtone between takes. It
sounds so much more natural than fading to black. I hate that.
Anyway, then I generate a new soundfile from the playlist and do
post-production processing to that file. It starts out at 24-bit and I
dither into 16 before I get to MLCD. So I don't rely on the
discburning program to crunch any audio at all. I don't trust it.

ulysses

LeBaron & Alrich

08-23-2003, 10:04 AM

Chris Smalt <smalt@wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> You can also look into Waveburner by Emagic. Its user interface is a bit
> like Sonic Solutions, and it can work with VST plugins. I don't know why
> it hardly gets mentioned.

I like WB Pro; though as seems routine, my ability to grasp its finer
points from the manuals is somewhat lacking. But it is a cool program
and as I get to know it better I like it better.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

LeBaron & Alrich

08-23-2003, 10:04 AM

EggHd <egghd@aol.com> wrote:

> << You can also look into Waveburner
> by Emagic. Its user interface is a bit like Sonic Solutions, and it can
> work with VST plugins. >>

> Is it still being made?

Yes.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

LeBaron & Alrich

08-23-2003, 10:04 AM

Justin Ulysses Morse <ulysses@rollmusic.com> wrote:

> Chris Smalt <smalt@wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> > You can also look into Waveburner
> > by Emagic. Its user interface is a bit like Sonic Solutions, and it can
> > work with VST plugins. I don't know why it hardly gets mentioned.

> The version I looked at only supports SCSI burners, and only particular
> models, which is exactly the same problem MLCD has. Other than that,
> the only real difference seems to be the interface: Lists in MLCD, and
> graphics in Waveburner Pro.

WB Pro 2.2 supports ****loads of FW burners. I run it with the internal
in the TiBook and with an exernal Glyph/Plextor FW burner.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

LeBaron & Alrich

08-23-2003, 10:04 AM

EggHd <egghd@aol.com> wrote:

> << So i bring a single
> large file into MLCD and then add track numbers throughout that one
> item. >>

> Where do you work on the spacing?

In Waverburner Pro you can spec a number (i.e., amount of time) for each
space.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

EggHd

08-23-2003, 11:49 AM

<< SoundDesigner II. I make a region for each song, put them all in a
playlist, then use the playlist nudge editor to get the crossfades just
right. >>

Right. So you don't need Jam or MLCD to do anything other than burn the CD,
correct?

So you then send an audio CD to a mastering engineer? I'm a bit foggy on that
part.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

EggHd

08-23-2003, 11:53 AM

<< In Waverburner Pro you can spec a number (i.e., amount of time) for each
space >>

I checked out Wave Burner Pro yesterday after the thread and it seems very much
like Peak and Spark. The editing seemed a bit goofy, but first time looking at
something can be deceiving.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

LeBaron & Alrich

08-23-2003, 12:18 PM

EggHd <egghd@aol.com> wrote:

> << In Waverburner Pro you can spec a number (i.e., amount of time) for each
> space >>

> I checked out Wave Burner Pro yesterday after the thread and it seems very
> much like Peak and Spark. The editing seemed a bit goofy, but first time
> looking at something can be deceiving.

The editing is a bit goofy, and I think they didn't intend it as a
full-on editor. I think Emagic means for us to edit in a regular editor
and then do some special things realting to premastering in WBP. It also
supports the CD text thing.

That first look comment is right on; it is not at first easy to
understand how one really edits in WBP; I have managed some groovy
edits, but it wasn't nearly as direct and sensible as I might like.
Hopefully I'll grok that better as I use it more.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

EggHd

08-23-2003, 12:22 PM

<>

That makes sense. Kinda like MLCD or Jam on steriods.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Mike Caffrey

08-23-2003, 12:42 PM

In article <20030822121313.08111.00001507@mb-m06.aol.com>, egghd@aol.com
(EggHd) wrote:

> << I've been doing live albums that are one solid audiofile and need PQ
> codes. >>
>
> I don't know what software you are using, but you could do this with
regions in
> Pro Tools and export to Jam or MLCD and I believe it will work.
>

The audio content prevents that in the specific cases I'm haing to deal with.

www.monsterisland.com

EggHd

08-23-2003, 01:11 PM

<< The audio content prevents that in the specific cases I'm haing to deal
with. >>

This begs for the question "what is the audio content?"

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-23-2003, 04:41 PM

In article <20030823134938.05431.00000434@mb-m16.aol.com>, EggHd
<egghd@aol.com> wrote:

> << SoundDesigner II. I make a region for each song, put them all in a
> playlist, then use the playlist nudge editor to get the crossfades just
> right. >>
>
> Right. So you don't need Jam or MLCD to do anything other than burn the CD,
> correct?

Spezackly.

> So you then send an audio CD to a mastering engineer? I'm a bit foggy on that
> part.

Often times (most of the time) I AM the mastering engineer. I tend to
work on projects with no budget (be advised, this is bad business
practice) and although I tell my clients they need to find a budget for
mastering, the $100 or so they could usually scrape together would put
the project into the hands of somebody far less qualified than myself,
so I usually take care of a rather minimalist final polish. When I do
use a real mastering house, I typically have brought them a single
24-bit SDII file, though I've learned that most mastering guys would
prefer to have individual song files to process separately. So when I
have the budget for a mastering engineer I actually trust, I just leave
the whole mess for them.

ulysses

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-23-2003, 04:52 PM

LeBaron & Alrich <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote:

> WB Pro 2.2 supports ****loads of FW burners. I run it with the internal
> in the TiBook and with an exernal Glyph/Plextor FW burner.

Hey, that's awesome. I was using 2.0, and now that I look at it again
I can't be positive it wouldn't see FW drives. I'll have to try again.
Isn't Emagic the company that got bought up by Apple? Will they
discontinue WB Pro?

ulysses

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-23-2003, 04:56 PM

In article <1g04xr2.151f1ltyhbwngN%walkinay@thegrid.net>, LeBaron &
Alrich <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote:

> EggHd <egghd@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > << So i bring a single
> > large file into MLCD and then add track numbers throughout that one
> > item. >>
>
> > Where do you work on the spacing?
>
> In Waverburner Pro you can spec a number (i.e., amount of time) for each
> space.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing, but I *think* WBP will
do what I want. I want to put ONE sound file into the program, and
tell it to have 15 different CD tracks, each with different pre-gap
times, and the audio will continue to play during the pre-gap. No
digital silence anywhere except the first two and last two seconds of
the whole CD.

ulysses

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-23-2003, 04:58 PM

EggHd <egghd@aol.com> wrote:

> < and then do some special things realting to premastering in WBP. >>
>
> That makes sense. Kinda like MLCD or Jam on steriods.

Yeah, it seems basically to be like MLCD but with a graphical
interface, and support for plug-ins and non-digi audio hardware and
new, non-SCSI burners. In other words, exactly what I need to migrate
away from these archaeic machines I'm using. But is it OSX-compatible?

ulysses

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-23-2003, 04:59 PM

Mike Caffrey <mike@monsterisland.com> wrote:

> In article <20030822121313.08111.00001507@mb-m06.aol.com>, egghd@aol.com
> (EggHd) wrote:
>
> > << I've been doing live albums that are one solid audiofile and need PQ
> > codes. >>
> >
> > I don't know what software you are using, but you could do this with
> regions in
> > Pro Tools and export to Jam or MLCD and I believe it will work.
> >
>
> The audio content prevents that in the specific cases I'm haing to deal with.

I think I understand what you're saying, and I think you're right about
JAM but not about MLCD.

ulysses

EggHd

08-23-2003, 05:14 PM

<< Often times (most of the time) I AM the mastering engineer. >>

Cool. Somehow I thought you then sent this to a mastering engineer and I was
wondering how they could keep all the PQ in place.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

EggHd

08-23-2003, 05:16 PM

<>

I thought both Jam and MLCD will imprt regions and set them up as tracks.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

EggHd

08-23-2003, 05:26 PM

<< But is it OSX-compatible? >>

I believe the newest version is. FYI Spark and Peak burn directly to disc now
as well.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Chris Smalt

08-23-2003, 05:51 PM

EggHd wrote:

> I checked out Wave Burner Pro yesterday after the thread and it seems very
> much like Peak and Spark. The editing seemed a bit goofy, but first time
> looking at something can be deceiving.

Chapter 3 of the 64-page Wave Burner manual begins "The Wave Window is
one of the most important and useful windows in Emagic Waveburner". I
guess that's why they begin explaining it on page 35! And when you
begin a new session in WB, the Wave Window is obscured by the other
windows. Sigh... In response to your other post - I haven't seen a
Sonic Solutions workstation in years, but it used to have a similar wave
display with the crossfade graph adapting automatically as you move a
file in time.

Chris

_____________________
I've run the demo and will get
around to it seriously one day.

Chris Smalt

08-23-2003, 09:06 PM

EggHd wrote:

> FYI Spark and Peak burn directly to disc now
> as well.

According to their manuals, Spark and Peak only create an image, that
subsequently gets burned by the MacOS (Spark) and Toast (Peak). Does
Peak come with a OEM version of Toast?

Chris

Mike Caffrey

08-24-2003, 12:26 AM

In article <20030823151141.05431.00000441@mb-m16.aol.com>, egghd@aol.com
(EggHd) wrote:

> << The audio content prevents that in the specific cases I'm haing to deal
> with. >>
>
> This begs for the question "what is the audio content?"
>
A bunch of live stuff thats edited to sound like it's continuous.

I guess maybe I could consolidate the region, make cuts, but then I'd
still have to make tweaks to cut out the two second gaps that most CD
burning programs. I can't imagint the cuts not being audible anyway.

www.monsterisland.com

Mike Caffrey

08-24-2003, 12:30 AM

In article <230820031759006294%ulysses@rollmusic.com>, Justin Ulysses
Morse <ulysses@rollmusic.com> wrote:

> Mike Caffrey <mike@monsterisland.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <20030822121313.08111.00001507@mb-m06.aol.com>, egghd@aol.com
> > (EggHd) wrote:
> >
> > > << I've been doing live albums that are one solid audiofile and need PQ
> > > codes. >>
> > >
> > > I don't know what software you are using, but you could do this with
> > regions in
> > > Pro Tools and export to Jam or MLCD and I believe it will work.
> > >
> >
> > The audio content prevents that in the specific cases I'm haing to
deal with.
>
>
> I think I understand what you're saying, and I think you're right about
> JAM but not about MLCD.
>
> ulysses

Well now I'm sort of lost with what your saying, but this originated with
me trying to find a replacement for MLCD since I can't use it on my new
G4.

Someone sent me an email with a description of Toast/Jam off Berklee's
website. It said that Jam burns redbook standard CDs.

www.monsterisland.com

Mike Caffrey

08-24-2003, 12:32 AM

In article <20030823191652.05431.00000446@mb-m16.aol.com>, egghd@aol.com
(EggHd) wrote:

> < JAM but not about MLCD. >>
>
> I thought both Jam and MLCD will imprt regions and set them up as tracks.
>
That's correct.

I think he was saying take the long region and cut them into smaller
regions so that you don't have to ad index points - each region is it's
own index.

www.monsterisland.com

LeBaron & Alrich

08-24-2003, 09:00 AM

Justin Ulysses Morse <ulysses@rollmusic.com> wrote:

> LeBaron & Alrich <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote:

> > WB Pro 2.2 supports ****loads of FW burners. I run it with the internal
> > in the TiBook and with an exernal Glyph/Plextor FW burner.

> Hey, that's awesome. I was using 2.0, and now that I look at it again
> I can't be positive it wouldn't see FW drives.

Emagic offered a demo download of WB 1.something that didn't support FW
drives, and then it tiik them a while (vut not ages) to get the 2.xxx
iterations up to handling most FW drives. With 2.2 they covered what
they said were all Apple internal drives and started adding FW drives at
a prodigious rate.

> I'll have to try again.
> Isn't Emagic the company that got bought up by Apple? Will they
> discontinue WB Pro?

Yes, Apple bought them, but word is that WBP will grow, not disappear.
I'd imagine something like integrated DVD-recordable of some kinds, and
so forth. And I wouldn't mind some expansion of the editing
capabilities, unless it's my own stupidity combined with their manual
that's keeping me from some of it.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

LeBaron & Alrich

08-24-2003, 09:00 AM

Mike Caffrey <mike@monsterisland.com> wrote:

> In article <20030822121313.08111.00001507@mb-m06.aol.com>, egghd@aol.com
> (EggHd) wrote:

> > << I've been doing live albums that are one solid audiofile and need PQ
> > codes. >>

> > I don't know what software you are using, but you could do this with
> regions in
> > Pro Tools and export to Jam or MLCD and I believe it will work.

> The audio content prevents that in the specific cases I'm haing to deal with.

I record whole sets into Waveburner Pro and then do what you're
describing.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

LeBaron & Alrich

08-24-2003, 09:00 AM

Chris Smalt <smalt@wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> And when you
> begin a new session in WB, the Wave Window is obscured by the other
> windows.

You can tell it to remember what your windows setup pref is. I get the
wave window across the top of the screen, the region window lower left,
and the track window lower right. I sometimes use the meter window
floating over one of the lower ones, but not as part of my usual config.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

LeBaron & Alrich

08-24-2003, 09:00 AM

Justin Ulysses Morse <ulysses@rollmusic.com> wrote:

> In article <1g04xr2.151f1ltyhbwngN%walkinay@thegrid.net>, LeBaron &
> Alrich <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote:

> > EggHd <egghd@aol.com> wrote:

> > > << So i bring a single
> > > large file into MLCD and then add track numbers throughout that one
> > > item. >>

> > > Where do you work on the spacing?

> > In Waverburner Pro you can spec a number (i.e., amount of time) for each
> > space.

> I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing, but I *think* WBP will
> do what I want. I want to put ONE sound file into the program, and
> tell it to have 15 different CD tracks, each with different pre-gap
> times, and the audio will continue to play during the pre-gap. No
> digital silence anywhere except the first two and last two seconds of
> the whole CD.

I track live sets right into WBP and do just that. Works champly.

--
ha

LeBaron & Alrich

08-24-2003, 09:06 AM

LeBaron & Alrich <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote:

> tiik them a while (vut not ages)

Keeerapp, more coffee, Hank!

--
ha

EggHd

08-24-2003, 10:10 AM

<>

You can set those to 0 seconds. There wil be no gap and it's a global
preference setting.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

EggHd

08-24-2003, 10:13 AM

<< Well now I'm sort of lost with what your saying, but this originated with
me trying to find a replacement for MLCD since I can't use it on my new
G4. >>

I have replaced MLCD with Toast with Jam and find it to be a worthy substitute
other then the few gripes mentioned earlier.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

EggHd

08-24-2003, 10:16 AM

<< According to their manuals, Spark and Peak only create an image, that
subsequently gets burned by the MacOS (Spark) and Toast (Peak). Does
Peak come with a OEM version of Toast? >>

From what I read on both websites, the newest version of each support direct
disc burning.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-24-2003, 05:16 PM

Mike Caffrey <mike@monsterisland.com> wrote:

> Well now I'm sort of lost with what your saying, but this originated with
> me trying to find a replacement for MLCD since I can't use it on my new
> G4.
>
> Someone sent me an email with a description of Toast/Jam off Berklee's
> website. It said that Jam burns redbook standard CDs.

Sorry. I think you're the guy who was talking about making CDs of live
performances and wanting to import a single "concert" file into your
disc burning program. Maybe it was somebody else. Anyway, that's
similar to the way I work and I have found Jam to be pretty useless for
this kind of work, though maybe I just needed to mess around more.
Wave Burner Pro definitely seems to be the way to go now that I know
more about it. Support for modern burners, continued development, a
modest editor, full control of indexing, pregaps, etc. and even support
for VST plug-ins. Sounds like a wiener to me. I will be spending some
time with it.

ulysses

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-24-2003, 05:19 PM

EggHd <egghd@aol.com> wrote:

> < still have to make tweaks to cut out the two second gaps that most CD
> burning programs. >>
>
> You can set those to 0 seconds. There wil be no gap and it's a global
> preference setting.

That sucks just as badly. What happens when you have 20 seconds of
applause between cuts? Setting the gap to 0 means you have to listen
to all that crap, no matter what, and it kind of ruins the disc for
radio play. With MLCD, you can set the pregap to be 20 seconds, and
all the applause can be in that pregap. So when you cue up a single
track, you simply don't hear the applause. It gets skipped because the
track begins playing at index 1 and stops at the next track's index 0.

ulysses

Chris Smalt

08-24-2003, 07:11 PM

Hank wrote:

> Keeerapp, more coffee, Hank!

Nah, just nudge the keyboard a hair to the left.

Chris

Mike Caffrey

08-25-2003, 01:55 AM

In article <240820031819099022%ulysses@rollmusic.com>, Justin Ulysses
Morse <ulysses@rollmusic.com> wrote:

> EggHd <egghd@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > < > still have to make tweaks to cut out the two second gaps that most CD
> > burning programs. >>
> >
> > You can set those to 0 seconds. There wil be no gap and it's a global
> > preference setting.
>
>
> That sucks just as badly. What happens when you have 20 seconds of
> applause between cuts? Setting the gap to 0 means you have to listen
> to all that crap, no matter what, and it kind of ruins the disc for
> radio play. With MLCD, you can set the pregap to be 20 seconds, and
> all the applause can be in that pregap. So when you cue up a single
> track, you simply don't hear the applause. It gets skipped because the
> track begins playing at index 1 and stops at the next track's index 0.
>
> ulysses

Heh. None of them have 20 seconds of applause in the middle and nothing is
editied in that doesn't need to be heard.

www.monsterisland.com

David Nobel

08-25-2003, 08:27 AM

egghd@aol.com (EggHd) wrote in message news:<20030824121625.28426.00000631@mb-m18.aol.com>...
> << According to their manuals, Spark and Peak only create an image, that
> subsequently gets burned by the MacOS (Spark) and Toast (Peak). Does
> Peak come with a OEM version of Toast? >>
>
> From what I read on both websites, the newest version of each support direct
> disc burning.
>
Warning: I am new to mastering altogether, so my comments are not
informed by much experience. However, I did a LOT of research and
talked to many people before buying the new Spark XL, as opposed to
Waveburner Pro. (I had already demoed Peak and didn't like the
interface.) Here are the major factors in my decision:

1) Spark XL supports direct burning in Red Book format using the Mac's
own disc burner utility.

2) Though both TC Electronics (Spark) and E-magic (Waveburner) are
German companies, E-magic is notoriously inscrutable about ongoing
development of Waveburner, in spite of being owned by Apple. Couldn't
get straight answers from the E-magic U.S. sales/support team who
openly expressed frustration with the German management and
development teams. Bottom line: Spark XL is well into its first
generation OS X release while Waveburner will still only say that an
OS X release is "planned' while refusing to commit to even an
approximate release date.

3) Spark is reputed to have set the industry standard with its new
high-end word length reduction system, which noise-shapes high bit
rate recordings down to Audio CD format. (Even E-magic's U.S. sales
team admitted this to me.) This can audibly improve CDs mastered from
20-bit and higher recordings.

4) Spark includes the FX Machine, a really nifty real-time effects
matrix with bundled high-quality plug-ins. It also comes with a good,
real-time audio restoration system. Plus some of its
mastering-specific features such as the cut editor and batch audio
file processor are excellent.

5) In its favor, Waveburner Pro is considered by many to have a
better, more intuitive user interface.

These were all things that were very important to me, but others may
have different priorities.

-- David

EggHd

08-25-2003, 10:08 AM

<< That sucks just as badly. What happens when you have 20 seconds of
applause between cuts? Setting the gap to 0 means you have to listen
to all that crap, no matter what, and it kind of ruins the disc for
radio play. >>

I thought you were talking about exporting all the files with PQ and index
points out of another prgram and you were wondering about the 2 sec pauses you
would need to edit out. I was saying that jam can not have the pauses if you
choose.

It's not difficult to make the applause a seperate track.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Chris Smalt

08-25-2003, 09:05 PM

EggHd wrote:

> I have replaced MLCD with Toast with Jam and find it to be a worthy substitute
> other then the few gripes mentioned earlier.

I still use SoundDesigner playlists a lot. I wish there was a current
program that could read them right. Jam acts as if it does, but it
messes them up badly.

Chris

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-26-2003, 02:53 AM

EggHd <egghd@aol.com> wrote:

> << That sucks just as badly. What happens when you have 20 seconds of
> applause between cuts? Setting the gap to 0 means you have to listen
> to all that crap, no matter what, and it kind of ruins the disc for
> radio play. >>
>
> I thought you were talking about exporting all the files with PQ and index
> points out of another prgram and you were wondering about the 2 sec pauses you
> would need to edit out. I was saying that jam can not have the pauses if you
> choose.

No, when I export from another program (SDII) I have just one file for
the whole album, and I don't have any PQ or index or pauses at all.
There's just 45 minutes of sound. Noise, then music, then noise, then
music, then noise, etc. til all the songs are done. The noise is
important, and it needs to go in the right places. Which is between
the CD tracks, not during them.

> It's not difficult to make the applause a seperate track.

No, you don't want the applause to be a separate track either, because
then when people put the disc into a jukebox and set it for shuffle,
they would occasionally hear a track that's just applause. I meant
exactly what I said, which is that the segue between songs needs to
occur between index 0 and index 1. I'm not talking about CD tracks,
but track indexes. And I'm not talking about having multiple indexes
in a CD track, just 0 and 1. If you skip to a particular CD track, it
always starts playing at index 1. If you rewind from there, you're in
the pre-gap or "negative time" where the clock counts backwards.

BTW I'm using "applause" generically here, I mean any kind of
between-song banter that adds to album continuity but would be annoying
when cueing up a single track for radio play, "mix tapes", or jukebox
shuffling.

Get it?

ulysses

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-26-2003, 02:57 AM

Chris Smalt <smalt@wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> EggHd wrote:
>
> > I have replaced MLCD with Toast with Jam and find it to be a worthy
> > substitute
> > other then the few gripes mentioned earlier.
>
>
> I still use SoundDesigner playlists a lot. I wish there was a current
> program that could read them right. Jam acts as if it does, but it
> messes them up badly.

MLCD messed them up too. IMHO the only workable choice is to "Save
playlist as sound file" in SDII and then bring that new file into your
disc program. In the case of Jam, this may raise the question if track
indexing discussed elsewhere in this very thread. MLCD and, I think,
WBP both handle this just fine.

ulysses

EggHd

08-26-2003, 10:41 AM

<< Get it? >>

I do. For some reason back in the thread this is not what I perceived the
issue to be when exporting to Jam or MLCD after the files had been put together
in Sound Designer (all the indexes and PQ complete) and someone didn't want to
deal with the extra 2 secs of inbetween track space.

---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Steve O'Neill

08-26-2003, 10:51 AM

I recently did a project, burned in Jam, that had inter-track sound. If you
play through from the previous track, you hear the sound while the clock counts
negative, then the selection starts at 0:00. But if you skip to the track, it
starts right at 0:00, no preceding sound. If I remembered what I did to make
that happen (it seemed obvious at the time), I'd describe that, but all I can
say is that it did exactly the thing that seems to be the hot topic here and
elsewhere in this very thread.

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:

> Chris Smalt <smalt@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>
>
>>EggHd wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have replaced MLCD with Toast with Jam and find it to be a worthy
>>>substitute
>>>other then the few gripes mentioned earlier.
>>
>>
>>I still use SoundDesigner playlists a lot. I wish there was a current
>>program that could read them right. Jam acts as if it does, but it
>>messes them up badly.
>
>
>
> MLCD messed them up too. IMHO the only workable choice is to "Save
> playlist as sound file" in SDII and then bring that new file into your
> disc program. In the case of Jam, this may raise the question if track
> indexing discussed elsewhere in this very thread. MLCD and, I think,
> WBP both handle this just fine.
>
> ulysses

david

08-26-2003, 12:47 PM

In article <260820030357052803%ulysses@rollmusic.com>, Justin Ulysses
Morse <ulysses@rollmusic.com> wrote:

> Chris Smalt <smalt@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>
> > EggHd wrote:
> >
> > > I have replaced MLCD with Toast with Jam and find it to be a worthy
> > > substitute
> > > other then the few gripes mentioned earlier.
> >
> >
> > I still use SoundDesigner playlists a lot. I wish there was a current
> > program that could read them right. Jam acts as if it does, but it
> > messes them up badly.
>
>
> MLCD messed them up too. IMHO the only workable choice is to "Save
> playlist as sound file" in SDII and then bring that new file into your
> disc program. In the case of Jam, this may raise the question if track
> indexing discussed elsewhere in this very thread. MLCD and, I think,
> WBP both handle this just fine.
>
> ulysses

I've never once had MLCD mess up a SD playlist and I've owned the
software since it first came out and used it on a lot of different
Macs. And you wouldn't believe some of the lengthy, complex playlists
I've had just for one chapter of a talking book. (Not the best v/o
talent.)

One thing to remember, you have to save your changes in SD before they
will be changed in MLCD.

David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island

CelebrationSound@aol.com
www.CelebrationSound.com

Mike Rivers

08-26-2003, 04:39 PM

In article <240820031819099022%ulysses@rollmusic.com> ulysses@rollmusic.com writes:

> What happens when you have 20 seconds of
> applause between cuts? Setting the gap to 0 means you have to listen
> to all that crap, no matter what, and it kind of ruins the disc for
> radio play.

That's when you edit the file to shorten the applause to something
that feels comfortable when you're not at the concert.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)

Chris Smalt

08-26-2003, 06:58 PM

Ulysses wrote:

> MLCD messed them up too.

Really? What happened?

Chris

Justin Ulysses Morse

08-27-2003, 06:11 AM

Chris Smalt <smalt@wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> Ulysses wrote:
>
> > MLCD messed them up too.
>
>
> Really? What happened?

Okay, to clarify, MLCD tends to mess up if you try to do crossfades
between Masterlist items when those masterlist items are SDII
playlists. Or, as mentioned earlier, if you go back and make changes
to the SDII playlist after you've already brought the "old" version of
the playlist into MLCD. It's definitely possible to get the two to
play together, but I've always found it worlds easier and more reliable
to do all the crossfades and edits in SDII and then generate new,
linear files to bring into MLCD.

ulysses