Tape Echos

[Nobody]

Jack A. Zucker <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in article <%yN1b.15649$2Y6.4923375@news2.news.adelphia.net>...

> Huh?!? Are our ears that different?

I don't know...you already know that I have heard many of your clips, and what I considered great tone from you, for example.

So, for example, that clip you had with the Les Paul and that wild amp thing was pretty much the best I heard from you, and I have
said so.

And then I read you say that the Les Paul you had was your fave tone of that type.

So I think we aren't *that* off from each other is all...I know you have an ultra critical ear.

>Playing and tone were immaculate.

Cool.

Just that IMHO I certainly wasn't thinking "wow..that sounds like Clapton!", but rather "he's playing some Clapton".

Maybe that same clip with his '59 Les Paul thru one of his awesome Marshalls thru a SM57, single mic'd 4x12 would do the trick for
me, Jack...

Make sense?

I thought the clip sounded really unreflective of what I would consider some killer tone...just me.

So if necessary, I will bite the bullet and apologize to Mr. Fuller...I was only commenting on the TONE, NOT Mike's playing...I did
not mean that at all.

>Like I said, it certainly wasn't the prototypical echoplex sample.

Maybe that is what it was.

>I'd want to hear something like Jimi's Voodoo Chile slight Return followed by some
> Gatton-type rockabilly and maybe the more chorusy stuff like this clip as a
> 3rd clip but how can you say it sounded like ****?

Hmm...what was it..it's hard to put into words...

It sounded like the echo was too chorused, and that it was affecting the "bloom" of the notes as I heard them, especially with the
chord work he was doing. The tone of the notes seemed to degenerate into the same sounding effect as what a chorus pedal does to a
high-gain tone...sounds too warble-y ( isn't that an old Echoplex characteristic anyway? ) and the notes were doing what they
wanted to instead of what Mike was trying to play...at least that was what I was hearing.

I wonder what the exact settings were for that clip? Slight slapback or so?

Also..the amp sounded on the verge of breakup or was kinda getting there somewhat, and delay into a gain amp doesn't sound really
all that good to me in the first place. At least that's what I believe I heard.

LOUD AS HELL AND CLEAN..well, that's another story...

>What's your criteria. ?

Hell, I don't know..many..I want the sound and notes to bloom under the echo without degenerating...I don't want the echo to add
much flavor of it's own really...just echo.

One thing that comes to mind is Jimmy Page with his '58 Les Paul thru his original parts Echoplex into one of his loud as hell Vox
AC-30s together with his rippin' loud original Marshalls and a 4x12...and all pretty much clean under all the volume.

What is your criteria?

I mean...help me learn if you wanna teach me what to listen for!


--
Jason
http://www.geocities.com/nobody_upstairs

[Odin]

"Nobody" <nobodyupstairs@aolDELETE.com> wrote in message

> Just that IMHO I certainly wasn't thinking "wow..that sounds like
Clapton!", but rather "he's playing some Clapton".

Yeah, I don't think he was trying to nail the Layla album sound so much as
just give an example of the tape echo with a well known riff. I wasn't
comparing his tone to the album, but I thought his tone was a perfect
example of a Strat into a small blackface combo at moderate to higher
volume.


> Maybe that same clip with his '59 Les Paul thru one of his awesome
Marshalls thru a SM57, single mic'd 4x12 would do the > trick for me,
Jack...

That, too, would be a good sound. But that's like comparing a Jaguar to a
monster truck. The're both cool but they aren't the same thing.


> Make sense?
>
> I thought the clip sounded really unreflective of what I would consider
some killer tone...just me.

I think the clip was intended to showcase the properties of the tape echo
much more than the "tone" of the guitar and amp. If I were to take a guess
I'd say that he used a Strat into a clean Fender amp because it would offer
the least coloration so people could focus on the actual tape echo.
However, like Jack stated, I don't think of Layla as the typical riff to
jam to when trying out a tape echo.


> So if necessary, I will bite the bullet and apologize to Mr. Fuller...I
was only commenting on the TONE, NOT Mike's
> playing...I did not mean that at all.

You really couldn't hear the "tone" through that monstrous flanger (the
32kbps flanger). 32kbps audio files are the anti-tone.


> It sounded like the echo was too chorused, and that it was affecting the
"bloom" of the notes as I heard them, especially with
> the chord work he was doing. The tone of the notes seemed to degenerate
into the same sounding effect as what a chorus
> pedal does to a high-gain tone...sounds too warble-y ( isn't that an old
Echoplex characteristic anyway? ) and the notes were > doing what they
wanted to instead of what Mike was trying to play...at least that was what
I was hearing.

It wasn't the tape echo causing that nasty chorus/flange sound, it was the
****ty quality of the file. He compressed the file all to hell so people
with slower connections could still download it. If you heard it in person
you'd think it was a different guitar and amp, I guarantee it.


> I wonder what the exact settings were for that clip? Slight slapback or
so?

Sounded pretty wet to me.


> Also..the amp sounded on the verge of breakup or was kinda getting there
somewhat, and delay into a gain amp doesn't
> sound really all that good to me in the first place. At least that's what
I believe I heard.

That's what a Deluxe Reverb does when it's turned up, it starts to break up
and gets in that not clean/not dirty zone. It's a beautiful thing when
you're playing a good BFDR and you push it just to the point of sweetness.


> LOUD AS HELL AND CLEAN..well, that's another story...

Like The Police? That has it's place but I'd rather hear Brian Setzer play
the Fulltone Tape Echo with his Gretsch thru his blonde Bassman.
Definitely loud, definitely not clean most of the time.


> >What's your criteria. ?
>
> Hell, I don't know..many..I want the sound and notes to bloom under the
echo without degenerating...I don't want the echo to > add much flavor of
it's own really...just echo.

I really think that was more a result of the recording quality (or lack
thereof) than the tape echo.


> One thing that comes to mind is Jimmy Page with his '58 Les Paul thru his
original parts Echoplex into one of his loud as hell
> Vox AC-30s together with his rippin' loud original Marshalls and a
4x12...and all pretty much clean under all the volume.

Apples and oranges. Page usually played pretty "clean" for all the volume
and such. People really use too much distortion when trying to achieve the
great tones of classic rock. Altho an AC30 isn't clean at all when
cranked, it's compressed and driven as hell, but it's different than a
modern distortion.

[Mondoslug1]

>
>"Nobody" <nobodyupstairs@aolDELETE.com> wrote in message
>
>> Just that IMHO I certainly wasn't thinking "wow..that sounds like
>Clapton!", but rather "he's playing some Clapton".
>
>Yeah, I don't think he was trying to nail the Layla album sound so much as
>just give an example of the tape echo with a well known riff. I wasn't
>comparing his tone to the album, but I thought his tone was a perfect
>example of a Strat into a small blackface combo at moderate to higher
>volume.
>
>
>> Maybe that same clip with his '59 Les Paul thru one of his awesome
>Marshalls thru a SM57, single mic'd 4x12 would do the > trick for me,
>Jack...
>
>That, too, would be a good sound. But that's like comparing a Jaguar to a
>monster truck. The're both cool but they aren't the same thing.

Gimme the jaguar. hey dewd your wife's calling you!



My tunes at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm

[Odin]

"Mondoslug1" <mondoslug1@aol.com> wrote in message

> >> Maybe that same clip with his '59 Les Paul thru one of his awesome
> >Marshalls thru a SM57, single mic'd 4x12 would do the > trick for me,
> >Jack...
> >
> >That, too, would be a good sound. But that's like comparing a Jaguar to
a
> >monster truck. The're both cool but they aren't the same thing.
>
> Gimme the jaguar. hey dewd your wife's calling you!

Yeah, but do you know what she's calling me?

[Nobody]

Yo Jack my man,

I haven't seen your reply, so I'll post this again if I may...I wanna talk music stuff and all that:


Jack A. Zucker <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in article <%yN1b.15649$2Y6.4923375@news2.news.adelphia.net>...

> Huh?!? Are our ears that different?

I don't know...you already know that I have heard many of your clips, and what I considered great tone from you, for example.

So, for example, that clip you had with the Les Paul and that wild amp thing was pretty much the best I heard from you, and I have
said so.

And then I read you say that the Les Paul you had was your fave tone of that type.

So I think we aren't *that* off from each other is all...I know you have an ultra critical ear.

>Playing and tone were immaculate.

Cool.

Just that IMHO I certainly wasn't thinking "wow..that sounds like Clapton!", but rather "he's playing some Clapton".

Maybe that same clip with his '59 Les Paul thru one of his awesome Marshalls thru a SM57, single mic'd 4x12 would do the trick for
me, Jack...

Make sense?

I thought the clip sounded really unreflective of what I would consider some killer tone...just me.

So if necessary, I will bite the bullet and apologize to Mr. Fuller...I was only commenting on the TONE, NOT Mike's playing...I did
not mean that at all.

>Like I said, it certainly wasn't the prototypical echoplex sample.

Maybe that is what it was.

>I'd want to hear something like Jimi's Voodoo Chile slight Return followed by some
> Gatton-type rockabilly and maybe the more chorusy stuff like this clip as a
> 3rd clip but how can you say it sounded like ****?

Hmm...what was it..it's hard to put into words...

It sounded like the echo was too chorused, and that it was affecting the "bloom" of the notes as I heard them, especially with the
chord work he was doing. The tone of the notes seemed to degenerate into the same sounding effect as what a chorus pedal does to a
high-gain tone...sounds too warble-y ( isn't that an old Echoplex characteristic anyway? ) and the notes were doing what they
wanted to instead of what Mike was trying to play...at least that was what I was hearing.

I wonder what the exact settings were for that clip? Slight slapback or so?

Also..the amp sounded on the verge of breakup or was kinda getting there somewhat, and delay into a gain amp doesn't sound really
all that good to me in the first place. At least that's what I believe I heard.

LOUD AS HELL AND CLEAN..well, that's another story...

>What's your criteria. ?

Hell, I don't know..many..I want the sound and notes to bloom under the echo without degenerating...I don't want the echo to add
much flavor of it's own really...just echo.

One thing that comes to mind is Jimmy Page with his '58 Les Paul thru his original parts Echoplex into one of his loud as hell Vox
AC-30s together with his rippin' loud original Marshalls and a 4x12...and all pretty much clean under all the volume.

What is your criteria?

I mean...help me learn if you wanna teach me what to listen for!

--
Jason
http://www.geocities.com/nobody_upstairs

[Jeff Liberatore]

"Nobody" <nobodyupstairs@aolDELETE.com> wrote in message
news:01c36a66$a1a41780$edc7caac@715162529worldnet. att.net...

> I mean...help me learn if you wanna teach me what to listen for!

Yo, dude... Lemme' try for one sec... Listen for what YOU like, not someone
else's impression of what's good. It's too subjective. It's like this; one
guy might say Duane Allman got the quintessential Les Paul sound with a
Marshall, some may say EC did... But there's some that think Slash and Gary
Richrath were getting it too. All Les Pauls and Marshalls and 4 totally
different cool sounds.

Don't take the "RMMG teaching Jason" thing TOO seriously man. It's really
all about what YOU think is good. When it really comes down to it, the ONLY
thing that matters is how you feel/think when you shut the pooter down and
play your guitar or get inspired by your favorite CD. That's one thing they
can't take from you!

Jeff

[Jack A. Zucker]

Great posting Jeff! :-)

I agree 100%.

I happen to love tape echo but I'm not sure I'd ever spend the $800 to get
it... :-)

"Jeff Liberatore" <jliberat@columbus.nospam.rr.com> wrote in message
news:UU62b.80778$hc.48421@fe3.columbus.rr.com...
>
> "Nobody" <nobodyupstairs@aolDELETE.com> wrote in message
> news:01c36a66$a1a41780$edc7caac@715162529worldnet. att.net...
>
> > I mean...help me learn if you wanna teach me what to listen for!
>
> Yo, dude... Lemme' try for one sec... Listen for what YOU like, not
someone
> else's impression of what's good. It's too subjective. It's like this; one
> guy might say Duane Allman got the quintessential Les Paul sound with a
> Marshall, some may say EC did... But there's some that think Slash and
Gary
> Richrath were getting it too. All Les Pauls and Marshalls and 4 totally
> different cool sounds.
>
> Don't take the "RMMG teaching Jason" thing TOO seriously man. It's really
> all about what YOU think is good. When it really comes down to it, the
ONLY
> thing that matters is how you feel/think when you shut the pooter down and
> play your guitar or get inspired by your favorite CD. That's one thing
they
> can't take from you!
>
> Jeff
>
>
>

[Nobody]

Jeff Liberatore <jliberat@columbus.nospam.rr.com> wrote in article <UU62b.80778$hc.48421@fe3.columbus.rr.com>...
>
> "Nobody" <nobodyupstairs@aolDELETE.com> wrote in message
> news:01c36a66$a1a41780$edc7caac@715162529worldnet. att.net...
>
> > I mean...help me learn if you wanna teach me what to listen for!
>
> Yo, dude... Lemme' try for one sec... Listen for what YOU like, not someone
> else's impression of what's good. It's too subjective. It's like this; one
> guy might say Duane Allman got the quintessential Les Paul sound with a
> Marshall, some may say EC did... But there's some that think Slash and Gary
> Richrath were getting it too. All Les Pauls and Marshalls and 4 totally
> different cool sounds.
>
> Don't take the "RMMG teaching Jason" thing TOO seriously man. It's really
> all about what YOU think is good. When it really comes down to it, the ONLY
> thing that matters is how you feel/think when you shut the pooter down and
> play your guitar or get inspired by your favorite CD. That's one thing they
> can't take from you!
>
> Jeff

Who are you and what have you done with Jeff?

--
Jason
http://www.geocities.com/nobody_upstairs

[Nobody]

Jack A. Zucker <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in article <4gb2b.17508$2Y6.5285933@news2.news.adelphia.net>...

> Great posting Jeff! :-)
>
> I agree 100%.
>
> I happen to love tape echo but I'm not sure I'd ever spend the $800 to get
> it... :-)

I would if it sounded like those I have played.

Also...why after I replied to your post and answered your questions, that why can't I get you to answer mine now?

Did I say something wrong?

--
Jason
http://www.geocities.com/nobody_upstairs

[Jack A. Zucker]

"Nobody" <nobodyupstairs@aolDELETE.com> wrote in message
news:01c36aa4$947e6cc0$fec8580c@715162529worldnet. att.net...

> Did I say something wrong?

No, not at all. The example you mentioned (Page) was one I agreed with 100%.
I think you're right in the regard that Mike's echo clip was not very
characteristic of echoplex tones though I still thought it sounded good on
it's own merit.

Did I miss another question there? Is so, sorry. It wasn't deliberate. Still
dealing with a residual spinal headache today...

[Jeff Liberatore]

"Nobody" <nobodyupstairs@aolDELETE.com> wrote in message
news:01c36aa2$d1eb2280$fec8580c@715162529worldnet. att.net...

> Who are you and what have you done with Jeff?

If you take this place and it's people too seriously, you start asking them
what you should like instead of deciding for yourself.

This is the same Jeff that's always been here.

Jeff

[Nobody]

Jack A. Zucker <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in article <lBd2b.17671$2Y6.5313581@news2.news.adelphia.net>...
> "Nobody" <nobodyupstairs@aolDELETE.com> wrote in message
> news:01c36aa4$947e6cc0$fec8580c@715162529worldnet. att.net...
>
> > Did I say something wrong?
>
> No, not at all. The example you mentioned (Page) was one I agreed with 100%.
> I think you're right in the regard that Mike's echo clip was not very
> characteristic of echoplex tones though I still thought it sounded good on
> it's own merit.
>
> Did I miss another question there?

No, no...just wanted to see if you thought my hearing was accurate.

>If so, sorry. It wasn't deliberate. Still dealing with a residual spinal headache today...

Aarrgg...that must suck.

Keep your head flat on a pillow, not elevated.

--
Jason
http://www.geocities.com/nobody_upstairs

[Jack A. Zucker]

"Nobody" <nobodyupstairs@aolDELETE.com> wrote in message
news:01c36ad2$a5b84820$bcc6580c@715162529worldnet. att.net...
> Jack A. Zucker <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in article
<lBd2b.17671$2Y6.5313581@news2.news.adelphia.net>...
> > "Nobody" <nobodyupstairs@aolDELETE.com> wrote in message
> > news:01c36aa4$947e6cc0$fec8580c@715162529worldnet. att.net...
> >
> > > Did I say something wrong?
> >
> > No, not at all. The example you mentioned (Page) was one I agreed with
100%.
> > I think you're right in the regard that Mike's echo clip was not very
> > characteristic of echoplex tones though I still thought it sounded good
on
> > it's own merit.
> >
> > Did I miss another question there?
>
> No, no...just wanted to see if you thought my hearing was accurate.
>
> >If so, sorry. It wasn't deliberate. Still dealing with a residual spinal
headache today...
>
> Aarrgg...that must suck.
>
> Keep your head flat on a pillow, not elevated.

I was in bed for 3 days straight. I finally had a blood-patch. Scary stuff.
Score one for Atlas! :-)

[Nobody]

Jack A. Zucker <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in article <1qm2b.18157$2Y6.5423057@news2.news.adelphia.net>...

> > Keep your head flat on a pillow, not elevated.
>
> I was in bed for 3 days straight. I finally had a blood-patch. Scary stuff.
> Score one for Atlas! :-)

What's a "blood-patch"?

--
Jason
http://www.geocities.com/nobody_upstairs