what notes do you tune to?

[drummer]

i noticed that with my new set, the 12inch and 13inch are tuned to the
same not... so i want to change that, i was just curious to see what
notes, or at least how many semitones apart the drummers here tune to.

thanks

[Jonathan Khoo]

I was taught to, and usually tune my drums approximately a 3rd apart. On my
older set, which had a 12", 13", 16" setup, i found that it was quite
difficult to get them a 3rd apart without making one sound too high (choked)
and one too low and flappy. On that set i used to just try and tune the
drums where they sounded best, then tweak the tuning a little a bit up or
down for as much separation between the two as possible.

Recently i tried tuning using 4ths as an interval on my 10-12-14 setup, and
i find it like it. Nice separation between the different drums and they
sound quite melodic when playing pairs of toms together.

Hope this helps,
Jon

"drummer" <imthemanbehindthedrums@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e568ecfa.0308301859.379a3f1@posting.google.co m...
> i noticed that with my new set, the 12inch and 13inch are tuned to the
> same not... so i want to change that, i was just curious to see what
> notes, or at least how many semitones apart the drummers here tune to.
>
> thanks

[nick amoroso]

>i noticed that with my new set, the 12inch and 13inch are tuned to the
>same not... so i want to change that, i was just curious to see what
>notes, or at least how many semitones apart the drummers here tune to.
>
>thanks

my advice: don't worry about notes. tune each drum to where they resonate
best. go here for some pointers on tuning:

http://www.mikedrums.com/tuning/tuning.html

peace,
:nick amoroso:
professional drums and instruction
proud endorser of silver fox drumsticks
-----
"punching stuff rules" ~ dan radin
"in your face, peart" ~ my tech

[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

Jonathan Khoo <jkhoo@nospamiinet.net.au> wrote:
> I was taught to, and usually tune my drums approximately a 3rd apart. On my
> older set, which had a 12", 13", 16" setup, i found that it was quite
> difficult to get them a 3rd apart without making one sound too high (choked)
> and one too low and flappy. On that set i used to just try and tune the
> drums where they sounded best, then tweak the tuning a little a bit up or
> down for as much separation between the two as possible.

I have mine tuned that way. In fact I've got 10,12, 13, 16 and the
10 and 16 are tuned an octave apart with the 12 and 13 forming
the chord. (3rds.) It's a bit tricky because the 13" tom is really
not quite the right size so it makes tuning sort of on the edge of
things on some of the drums and you can't just tune to ANY note.
You have to pick a starting note that falls within the range
of the tom array. But Yeah, with reasonable drums (Hey, I used
to tune my beater Sunlites this way) and with reasonable care it works
well as a tuning scheme.

> Recently i tried tuning using 4ths as an interval on my 10-12-14 setup, and
> i find it like it. Nice separation between the different drums and they
> sound quite melodic when playing pairs of toms together.

And I very much agree with this too. I tune my smaller kit
in 4ths (Note that the 10-12 above is also a 4th) and I LOVE
the musicality it brings to the kit! It's hard to get 4ths
on a 12-13-16 kit, but when you can, it rocks!

That's me. Some drummers don't tune toms. They "tension" them.
This probably means that they know nothing about notes, pitches
or changes and don't care to learn. Buddy started this view.
They just tune until they don't sound like ****e and leave them
there. Probably one of the bigest purveyors around of this school
is Mike Portnoy. He said (and I quote) "I just sit at the drumset
and give the toms a few whacks and I think 'That sounds powerful'
and I leave it like that. I'm never going to be all anal like tapping
at each lug [wrinkles nose]"

Benj

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[Jonathan Khoo]

> I have mine tuned that way. In fact I've got 10,12, 13, 16 and the
> 10 and 16 are tuned an octave apart with the 12 and 13 forming
> the chord. (3rds.) It's a bit tricky because the 13" tom is really
> not quite the right size so it makes tuning sort of on the edge of
> things on some of the drums and you can't just tune to ANY note.
> You have to pick a starting note that falls within the range
> of the tom array. But Yeah, with reasonable drums (Hey, I used
> to tune my beater Sunlites this way) and with reasonable care it works
> well as a tuning scheme.

Interesting, Benj. Did you choose this setup on purpose, or did you add a 10
to a 12, 13,16 configuration? Just wondering coz its one of the more unusual
(to me) configurations. How do you begin tuning that set of toms? Would you
begin with the 12-13 pair first? I usually start with the lowest tom and go
up from there. On my last re-heading i went from the top to the bottom and
by the last drum i found myself really running out of room in as far as how
low the drum would go.

> And I very much agree with this too. I tune my smaller kit
> in 4ths (Note that the 10-12 above is also a 4th) and I LOVE
> the musicality it brings to the kit! It's hard to get 4ths
> on a 12-13-16 kit, but when you can, it rocks!

Definitely, i'm loving this separation that 4ths give. And i think because i
spent a little more time getting them to as close to perfect 4ths as i can
with my current level of tuning skill, they sound and feel more musical than
just drums which go boom. :) Or maybe it's me, i dunno. but it sure feels
that way and i'm really liking it!

> That's me. Some drummers don't tune toms. They "tension" them.
> This probably means that they know nothing about notes, pitches
> or changes and don't care to learn. Buddy started this view.
> They just tune until they don't sound like ****e and leave them
> there. Probably one of the bigest purveyors around of this school
> is Mike Portnoy. He said (and I quote) "I just sit at the drumset
> and give the toms a few whacks and I think 'That sounds powerful'
> and I leave it like that. I'm never going to be all anal like tapping
> at each lug [wrinkles nose]"

Doesn't Portnoy trigger all his drums anyway? Or is that a different "name"
drummer in that genre that i'm thinking of? I'm thinking that if he triggers
everything anyway, he wouldn't need proper tuning, no? In any case, it's a
shame with that nice (but huge!) kit/s of his.

Jon

[John P.]

"drummer" <imthemanbehindthedrums@hotmail.com> wrote in a message

> i noticed that with my new set, the 12inch and 13inch are tuned to the
> same not... so i want to change that, i was just curious to see what
> notes, or at least how many semitones apart the drummers here tune to.

Thirds... or somewhere thereabouts

[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

Jonathan Khoo <jkhoo@nospamiinet.net.au> wrote:

> Interesting, Benj. Did you choose this setup on purpose, or did you add a 10
> to a 12, 13,16 configuration? Just wondering coz its one of the more unusual
> (to me) configurations. How do you begin tuning that set of toms? Would you
> begin with the 12-13 pair first? I usually start with the lowest tom and go
> up from there. On my last re-heading i went from the top to the bottom and
> by the last drum i found myself really running out of room in as far as how
> low the drum would go.

Correct. It was a standard configuration and I added a 10. The originals
were tuned in 3rds. and when I added the 10 I played around a bit
and loved the 4th thing between the 10 and 12 and that created an octave
to the low tom. A cool lick is 10-12 together then 12-16 together.
Since I tune to actual notes it doesn't matter where I start. I just
grab the bass and pluck the appropriate note for the drum in question
and tune. Early on I did have to play around a bit with WHICH notes
I was going to start with. As you note with these sizes you can easly
run out of range either on the low drum or the 13 which is being
sort of pushed up against the stops. I still can change the range
sligthly to better fit rock keys (E) if necessary, but you can't
move things a lot unless I would change some of the drum sizes.

> Definitely, i'm loving this separation that 4ths give. And i think because i
> spent a little more time getting them to as close to perfect 4ths as i can
> with my current level of tuning skill, they sound and feel more musical than
> just drums which go boom. :) Or maybe it's me, i dunno. but it sure feels
> that way and i'm really liking it!

Naw. Not just you. I can live with 3rds. but conga playing has really
turned me on to the 4th thing. Yes. Much more musical!

> Doesn't Portnoy trigger all his drums anyway? Or is that a different "name"
> drummer in that genre that i'm thinking of? I'm thinking that if he triggers
> everything anyway, he wouldn't need proper tuning, no? In any case, it's a
> shame with that nice (but huge!) kit/s of his.

He didn't when I saw him. I mean why have a bazzilion drums if you
are going to trigger? He has a tech who tunes his kit anyway.
He pretty much just sits down and plays. With his attitude it's
prolly for the best! :-) He seemed like a really nice guy
and musically knowledgable so I was rather surprised at his
attitude toward drum tuning.

Benj

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[-MIKE-]

>>i noticed that with my new set, the 12inch and 13inch are tuned to the
>>same not... so i want to change that, i was just curious to see what
>>notes, or at least how many semitones apart the drummers here tune to.
>>
>>thanks
>
> my advice: don't worry about notes. tune each drum to where they
> resonate best. go here for some pointers on tuning:
>
> http://www.mikedrums.com/tuning/tuning.html
>
> peace,
> :nick amoroso:
>

And while you're there, check out my very tine resume. :-)


-MIKE-

--
http://mikedrums.com
mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[TJ Hertz]

drummer wrote:
> i noticed that with my new set, the 12inch and 13inch are tuned to the
> same not... so i want to change that, i was just curious to see what
> notes, or at least how many semitones apart the drummers here tune to.
>
> thanks

With a 5-piece, I usually try for fourths, even with 12/13/16. With 2 toms,
I tune to whatever sounds best. At the moment my drums are bottomed out to
as low as they go while still singing; I'm playing a lot of rock these days.

--
TJ Hertz
http://www.whatyourenot.com

[Chris Milillo]

"nick amoroso" <soulbelly@aol.comICAL> wrote in message
> my advice: don't worry about notes. tune each drum to where they
resonate
> best.

I agree totally, Nick. What if the notes to which you tune your toms are
out of key with the music you're playing (which will probably be the case,
more often than not)? That's right, the "melodic" tuning theory goes right
out the window. I don't intentionally tune to specific notes or intervals,
but I think my ear naturally hears melodic intervals as being the "proper"
intervals between my toms.

CM

[Andreas Moser]

drummer wrote:

> notes, or at least how many semitones apart the drummers here tune to.

For jazz I wish you could buy new drums (toms) without a definite pitch...
How do you get a proper jazz tom sound, like old Gretsch drums that have a
non-harmonic 'boing' sound that just blends in neutrally with the music...
(e.g. Brian Blade still has that sound)

Andreas

[Anthony Giampa]

Notes? What are notes? =)

I tunes 'em so's they sound good. Rack, floor and bass.

Geesh... this is what I get for sticking with a 4-piece only a few months
after starting to play drums... =)

--

--
Anthony Giampa; Imperiai2@cox.net
"Pity makes me strong." -- Conan O'Brien


"drummer" <imthemanbehindthedrums@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e568ecfa.0308301859.379a3f1@posting.google.co m...
> i noticed that with my new set, the 12inch and 13inch are tuned to the
> same not... so i want to change that, i was just curious to see what
> notes, or at least how many semitones apart the drummers here tune to.
>
> thanks

[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

Chris Milillo <drums@bestweb.net> wrote:
> "nick amoroso" <soulbelly@aol.comICAL> wrote in message
>> my advice: don't worry about notes. tune each drum to where they
> resonate
>> best.

> I agree totally, Nick. What if the notes to which you tune your toms are
> out of key with the music you're playing (which will probably be the case,
> more often than not)? That's right, the "melodic" tuning theory goes right
> out the window. I don't intentionally tune to specific notes or intervals,
> but I think my ear naturally hears melodic intervals as being the "proper"
> intervals between my toms.

What hasn't been said in all this is that one also has to consider
just how "pure" the tone of your drums are. If your toms really
ring to resonant notes, the intervals and tuning DOES matter.
And yes, if you are out of tune with the key of the music it can
sound like crap! This is one reason to tune to notes that in
a general way fit the usual keys of the music your are playing.
Tuning to a diminished chord is even better because it fits
most things well. If you play congas (which are sharply melodic
in the open tones) you get experience with all this.

However, not ALL drums are melodic. The closer you get to that
cardboard box sound the less the actual pitch of each drum
matters. Ideal in some cases are drums that have a sort
of generic sound that is sort of pitched, but general enough
that it fits any key. It doesn't have to be totally covered
in duct tape to get there either.

The point is however, that if your toms are highly melodic
resonant drums with tons of sustain, and you decide to just
tune them so they "sound good" you'd better go sit in the audience
and listen to the nasty mess you can make if they end
up a minor second from the key. In those cases the choices
are do a bit of tuning or get out the duct tape! :-)

However, I do agree that the ear can be pretty good in finding
nice melodic tuning without doing a bunch of anal concentration
like tuning to exact "notes".

Benj
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[Bob Wennerstrom]

bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net wrote:

> The point is however, that if your toms are highly melodic
> resonant drums with tons of sustain, and you decide to just
> tune them so they "sound good" you'd better go sit in the audience
> and listen to the nasty mess you can make if they end
> up a minor second from the key. In those cases the choices
> are do a bit of tuning or get out the duct tape! :-)
>

I've never seen a live performance and thought.. "Gee those
drums are out of tune with the rest of the band." I suppose I
agree with you in principle but I have never personally heard
the phenomenon you describe in a live setting.

Drummer at large

[morris]

>
> That's me. Some drummers don't tune toms. They "tension" them.
> This probably means that they know nothing about notes, pitches
> or changes and don't care to learn. Buddy started this view.
> They just tune until they don't sound like ****e and leave them
> there.


why do you presume this? there' are lot's of guy s who are fully
aware of notes and changes who don't "choose" pitches.

whatever....
you're the NYC critic, right?

nuff said......

[Dan Radin]

I think each drum has one or more sweet spots. For example, Most Gretsch
8x12s have a great low, fat tone at the bottom, and then two or three
excellents spots way up high where they sound geat. They don't do the middle
ground so well. Many 14" floor toms have this same scheme, but more 16"s
don't really go high so well. I think that when you choose your drums for
the gig/session/new kit purchase, you have to research what the sizes will
impact in terms of tuning options. This even differs from brand to brand.
Just because you liked the fatness of a Gretsch 14x14, buying a Fibes 14x14
and expecting it to sound the same might not work out.

So getting back to tuning, I think you have to get to know each of your
drums, and then learn to tune to the sweet spots. If you've chosen your
drums appropriately to what you want to hear, then you won't need to worry
about intervals and contrived tunings. Just find the sweet spots and lock
'em in.

Obviously, this doesn't apply with prefab configurations, but it might work
with the 13 and 16 of a 12/13/16 confugration. The 12 and 14 in most "jazz"
kits usually work well, but may not go enough for use in louder rock
situations. 12 and 16 or even 12 and 15 work better. 16 and 18 sound
amazingly similar, but 15 and 16 are surprisingly dissimilar. This is the
kind of stuff you should consider when purashing drums, because it's the
cheif determinant of how well you'll like the tuning of the kit.

[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

morris <onedropper@earthlink.net> wrote:

> why do you presume this? there' are lot's of guy s who are fully
> aware of notes and changes who don't "choose" pitches.

> whatever....
> you're the NYC critic, right?

> nuff said......


Yeah, what you expect outta some hick? Actually the remark only
appies to drums with prominent pitches. When you tune them down
with duct tape and the those Remo plastic trays there are no
pitches left to tune to. You know, the way you nooyourkers
like them!
(just kidding)

Benj
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[bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net]

Bob Wennerstrom <bobwenn@frontier.net> wrote:

> I've never seen a live performance and thought.. "Gee those
> drums are out of tune with the rest of the band." I suppose I
> agree with you in principle but I have never personally heard
> the phenomenon you describe in a live setting.

I have. But to tell the truth, the phenomena is not real
common. Even less common back before everyone got so much
into RIMS, sustain and thin heads. But I've heard drum solos
where the drums were actually out of tune with themselves!
Now like everything in music that can sound like crap OR
it can be taken advantage of as an "effect". I love the
effect! So I've got a pair of bongos on my kit and I tune
them to a major or minor second. (Bongos are normally tuned
a 4th apart) When you hit them together it gives this great
"chopsticks" or old-time car horn "effect". Cool.

So like all in music there isn't a hard and fast rule. It just
"depends". My experience is if you just listen carfully you
can hear both the bad stuff and the good stuff as well as
figure ways to turn the bad into good stuff. The ear is an
amazing thing.

Benj

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[DPercussions]

>Subject: Re: what notes do you tune to?
>From: Andreas Moser spam@hotmail.com
>Date: 8/31/03 5:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3F51C4D6.E28D24B4@hotmail.com>
>
>drummer wrote:
>
>> notes, or at least how many semitones apart the drummers here tune to.
>
>For jazz I wish you could buy new drums (toms) without a definite pitch...
>How do you get a proper jazz tom sound, like old Gretsch drums that have a
>non-harmonic 'boing' sound that just blends in neutrally with the music...
>(e.g. Brian Blade still has that sound)
>
>Andreas

Jazz toms are usually tuned up there with single ply open sustaining heads that
give off a rather complex tom tonality rather than just a bottom note w/attack.
That "boing" is probably the mid frequencies creating that transparency of
sound.

Darick