Another MIDI drum question...

[ZelRiptha]

I don't think this can be done, but I've wanted to lately...

Is there any way to pan different parts of the trap set out left or right while keeping snare, bass, etc. centered? For example, I'd like to have some hand claps hard right, some lighter claps hard left, and keep the rest of the kit center. The problem is that some of these events are simultaneous - and all on channel 10. Is there a way to force another MIDI channel to play percussion sounds? That would solve this problem neatly. Any ideas? TIA.

ZR

[BOOsTER]

When I do mastering ...I usually use reality by SeerMusic Systems (www.seermusic.com) and there is allowed to edit each zone of a midi instrument...So you can edit piano from example in zone from C3 - A3...and since drumkits are only sounds mapped to notes I can edit each zone of a drumset itself... I think this is possible in Cubase (not Sure) I'm a Cakewalker and really I dunno about any way in this proggie...sorry...

[Ralph'e']

When I do mastering, i mix a bit of "MIDI technology" with "Sequencers." I use FruityLoops 3, just throw the MIDI in as a channel and play around with the notation, so much you can do, and panning is one of them!

However, Fruity does not come cheap. 400NZ$
Other sequencers are Logic, Cubase.
But only get into the sequencer business if you are in the MP3-making business.

[voice of god]

well i dont know if these guys answered ur question.

But to my knowledge you cant do it Zel, coz as u said its all on channel 10.

Lemme know if u find a way

[ZelRiptha]

I may just try some effect sounds instead of claps (113-127) and see if they still sound decent. Otherwise, I may have to do without the pans, 'cause it's distracting as hell to have the snare shots bouncing hard left occasionally.

I think both those answers involved the digital recording process, which isn't what I'm after. I'm hoping for a pure MIDI solution.

[BrothersGrim]

Some midi boards will allow you to assign a drum track to a midi channel other than 10. I also think Cakewalk pro will allow this in software also. You can assign a midi channel to play a percussion part. Here is something I have also done in the past. If your sequencing software will allow you to record digital audio, you can kill or mute everything in your song except the part you want to change. Record your file with sound forge or some other recording app and then import it as a wave file. I do this a lot because I can EQ separate parts of my drum track. Cymbals are a good example. I process reverb really heave and then import the crashes as a wav file. Just a suggestion.

[Stilcrazy]

Bros Grim ... good suggestion ... I will try it ..

[BOOsTER]

I don't really think that ads of this kind should be here... :(
hmmz :P

[ZelRiptha]

Hrm, yeah, Voice, Flea? Is that ^^ sort of thing allowed? I think he blasted i through several forums here...

[voice of god]

no prob, its gooooone.

any bad posts, just report em by clicking on Report, under the offending post;)

together we can make the streets safer:thumbsup:

my work here is done

:: flicks cape an flies off into the sky ::

[BOOsTER]

/me knows about the report thing

but I was not really sure if it's really against the rules here :))

Greets

and thanks to Voice of god :)

[ZelRiptha]

Arr, thanks for the reminder and clean-up, Voice :).

[lostdave]

Hang about.....
In the world of MIDI ...(almost) ANYTHING is possible....
lets establish some facts first.

ZR,
1.what software are you using?
2.What are you using for a sound module?
3.How quick is your PC?

Dave

[ZelRiptha]

1. Cakewalk Home Studio 6.0
2. Yamaha DB50XG
3. It's my older PC at the moment, PII400, 128MB RAM

I tried setting off the hits temporally, but that just messes up the sound; plus claps, hits, etc. ring out for a few milliseconds...

You have an idea?

[lostdave]

Yes I have an idea.(forgot I responded to this thread...you should have remindededed me!!!!!)

use Hubi Midi Loopback virtual cable(if ya need it let me know...it's shareware)

and use somthing like fruity loop(which will sync to cakewalk)

that way you can use sampled drums and pan them how ever you like.

Option 2
Do you have a SB live card??

Find a good drum kit that you like as an SF2..use Voyetra or awave..edit the bank to suit and use that instead of the yamaha drums(unles you can actually edit the kit on the yamaha(which from memory you can't)


Dave

[Ronny]

Is the best option not simply to split the drum track into the seperate channels you need?

Drums - channel 10

Hand Clap channel 11

etc....

Then pan away till your heats content!!

[lostdave]

ronny,
Most Synths(ZR's In particular) will not allow you to run Drums on anything other than ch10

and even if you split notes to tracks and try to pan them out, it will pan the whole kit as you are only dealing with one MIDI channel.


Dave

[ZelRiptha]

I think I see what you mean Dave. I was just hoping to be able to arrive at a solution that would allow me to save a MIDI file that you (or anyone) could play on your system and have it sound right. I will be able to produce the correct audio result and make an MP3 or whatever, but if I'm doing audio processing, then I can just make several WAVs and process them however negating the need for special MIDI considerations (I think). Does that make sense? I'm guessing it's impossible to make a MIDI file that any Joe Blow can play on his system and hear different simultaneous drum sounds panned differently. Thanks for your diligence, patience, and brain-power :).

[lostdave]

Your assumption is correct...In most GM gear it is near impossible to overide the default settings. Unfortunatly that is the way Of GM.

Yes from an audio standpoint...hell ya can do anything...
For Instance, Because I play my drums in live, I record all my midi drums onto one track, then run the notes to tracks CAL in cakewalk, then record them in 1-4 @ a time(depending on how many ins and outs I have free etc etc) then pan it out how ever I like eq, compress and process as needed.


Dave

[Ronny]

Dave, not trying to be argumentative but I have split drums to various track. A typical example is when a midi has no intro I have to generally put in a 4 beat hit hat. I usually put it in channel 16 cos in most songs nothing much happens up around there.

I assume, though I've never tried it, that I can pan away.:confused2

Must have a go a splitting a drum track when I'm home. I'll post what happens.

[jeaniesing]

My experience is that it depends on the program..... I can, in one program, have several channels of drums (which I need when I'm creating - coordination and I aren't in bed together very often), but if I forget to change them all to channel 10 before I pop-em in at school I'll have a bass drum plus a cacophony of atonal piano rhythm......

I'm horrible about using several programs to accomplish what I want. If I don't know where this or that controller is in one I'll just open the file in another!

[midiprog2000]

To change the panning of the individual drumsounds, you'll have to use some controller combinations. The combination of controllers depends on the system you are using. If your tone generator is not in any particular protocol, you'll have to read the midi specs in your manual. But the most used protocols are Roland GS and Yamaha XG (in fact it's GM, but there are no controllers specified to change the panning of the drum instruments in GM).

If you have a GS or XG compatible sound generator, use this controllers to do the job:
cc 99 28 (= NRPN)
cc 98 [keynumber] (= select the drumsound you want)
cc 06 [pan value] (with center = 64)

Hope this is the anwer to your question,
Alain
www.mididesign.be

[ZelRiptha]

Yes, I think you're right. My synth is XG compatible, and I can do some fancy controller panning of individual percussion notes. This will do if I make an MP3 on this machine, but it won't play on anyone else's machine unless they have the same XG compatibility. Thanks for the info, though! (I will probably resort to this, better than no solution!)

ZR

[ch1char0n]

i dont think it can be done either...

[saxmidiman]

You can use different channels on some sound cards or tone generators.
I use a Yamaha MU90R, and I sometimes have drums on different channels.

I'll leave a midifile on here in a little bit that you can look at to see. It's done in XG. (I think it's the only way to do it).

Hope it helps

[saxmidiman]

Hope you can open and take a look at what I did. Hope it helps and good luck to you. It only works in XG.

[ZelRiptha]

Thanks a lot! I appreciate your taking the time to help.