guitar lessons equals child abuse?

[tammy]

can anybody advise me.
i have a three year old son.
when is it appropriate to teach him to play the guitar and how?
i already have a small guitar.
i really want him to learn to play. i dont care if its classical or pop.
t

[jeaniesing]

I'm not a guitar player... but a 3 yr old? Unless he's terrifically focusable (there are those out there - have I told you about my brilliant nephew yet? ;)) I'd say wait.... 5-6 years old you could expect to spend 10 minutes picking out simple tunes - maybe even with the guitar laying down rather than him having to hold it - but make it all fun - no mention of the 'practice' word ;)... teach him a 2-finger chord or two that you can sing a familiar song with... a year later look at music perhaps.... chord symbols for he ones he knows and the notation to music he's already played... then a new song using the same pitches/chords as the song he's already played.... but, again... I'm no guitar player... methinks a kid needs to be able to appreciate an instrument as not-another-toy before you'll really "teach" them anything :). teach him a little reverance for the instrument first... awe can go a LONG way :)

Any guitar players out there care to comment?

[- Da Ville -]

i started learning at 5 years old. i'd just give him a junk guitar and let him mess with it for two years and then upgrade when he becomes more responsible. worked 4 me!


also, he doesn't really have to learn how to read music. playing by ear is much better for beginners. it's kinda like tracing a picture. reading sheet music is not very important. most musicians you listen to do not know how to read music.

[tammy]

thank you for the replies.
i wonder if any research has been done on this topic. both my two best friends came from musical parents, yet neither of them ended up being serious about music. myself desperate to learn but no talent, has ended up being a singing teacher slanting towards music therapy. i want my son to have a choice of being a classical or pop or jazz musician, or nothing to do with music. the operative word is having real choice.
t

[Inu Yasha]

the younger the better:-D

Just make sure you show him around the music area so he can enjoy what ever he's doing. if he has a large choice, he'll find a passion for ONE of them.
Singing, guitar, drums

[lostdave]

I disagree on teh playing by ear issue.......

at some point.....learning how to read is important....I started learning to play @ 9yo...but didn't learn to read music till I was about 13...
I struggled(and still do) with sheet music to this day.

If it had been introducded to me earlier, I think it would have
been different.

And I strongly discourage the Jazz path.....damn pretentious so-and-so's!!!!

Yeah I have an Axe to grind on that....but hey..i'll save that for a different thread :D

Dave

[tammy]

hmm both views are interesting. i agree on lots of options and instruments. i am not so sure about learning to read over playing by ear. i know many musicians on both sides. on the one hand they can read, but are mechanical classical musicians who have difficulty improvising, whereas those who cant read, can pick up anything, but as you say, have difficulty learning to read. hmmmm...... i think i will offer my son all opportunities and let him lead me.
t

[jeaniesing]

You've got the right idea Tammy................... Learning to read chord symbols/sheet music does NOT preclude his being a musician if he wants to... and it doesn't preclude him 'being listened to" (shame on you TRACK for such a small minded view... And while I'm on the subject.... not ALL jazz guitarists are pretentious, DAVE!!!!).

I can do both.... I read and I improv.... I learned to read music on piano at 4-5ish years... there're two things that come into play- plain and simple. #1. You give him the opportunity when he's ready and tempt him with tidbits to pique that interest now.... #2. You keep pushing him to practice EVEN WHEN he doesn't seem to love it.

Once upon a time nearly EVERYONE who could afford it played SOMETHING becasue of the commitment of their parents. Responsibility falls to the parents to make something of their child... my Mom forced me to practice 4th-8th grade, I started liking it in 8th grade. Now I teach music.... Without that push... even when the weather is nice etc. to play EVERY DAY I would not have gotten good enough to like it. out of curiosity I asked the other 2 music teachers in my little school system and they too were 'forced' to practice..... I wonder how many of out MBer's who are lifetime musicians now (and I stress 'lifetime musicians' as opposed to ringtone collecters... I'm talking about people who play for the love of it) find a similar background.... but... I'm rambling now ;)... you got my drift!

[Young Ty]

give the kid time, teach him when he's like 7 or 8

[Pol]

Originally posted by lostdave
I disagree on teh playing by ear issue.......


And I strongly discourage the Jazz path.....damn pretentious so-and-so's!!!!

Yeah I have an Axe to grind on that....but hey..i'll save that for a different thread :D

Dave

That particular topic could become another war zone Dave !

[tammy]

amazing......
believe it or not, as a vocal instructor, i enjoy pop, yes even avril livigne (see i know how to spell her name!), the majority of my students want to learn the latest pop songs... , i also love jazz, but because i am a vocalist, i only like jazz which has a vocal line ie someone singing, especially female vox. then i have come to deeply appreciate opera, again, specifically listening to female singers. (pavarotti does nothing for me) so each musician has wool covering part of their eyes. i never had enough confidence, oportunity, combined talent (it is not enough to be able to sing..) to be totally satisfied as a musician now. i wish i had had a chance to learn to play an instrument properly so i would have had a better foundation and more choice, but on the other hand, most kids who are pushed to play classical stop as soon as they leave school. i understand the dicotomy or is that tricotomy with jazz, pop, classical. in my opinion each has a place, each has its own language, and the trick is to get one's kid to appreciate all types of music and hopefully give them a musical grounding which leaves them space to choose.
t

[- Da Ville -]

You've got the right idea Tammy................... Learning to read chord symbols/sheet music does NOT preclude his being a musician if he wants to... and it doesn't preclude him 'being listened to" (shame on you TRACK for such a small minded view... And while I'm on the subject.... not ALL jazz guitarists are pretentious, DAVE!!!!).
i'm not really saying if he learn's to read that he would play music that nobody will listen to. but, music such as jazz, classical, and opera is more where the demand to read lies. i should have said "music i listen to". and i can honestly say that when i was in junior high, my experiences in band class almost ruined my desire to play music. it was a slow process, and i just felt stifled and bored and wanted to do something else (like go play, i was 12 after all). it really will eventually be up to your son. i will say that when i got older, i became interested in reading sheet music to recreate someone else's guitar solos. (kirk hammett). it worked somewhat, but it didn't last. i eventually just figured them out on my own, which to me was more satisfying. i hardly play guitar anymore except when i'm just kickin' it around the house. now i am addictively commited to making music on a computer (i feel like trent reznor). i am amazed at how much of the crap you can cut out of the production process. i can make a fully-mixed cd any time i want. there's nothing like makin' sweet, sweet music.
i can tell you that i really do appreciate ALL types of music EXCEPT COUNTRY!! ...;)

[bnjiman80]

Hi guys, very interesting points made there.

The only thing that occurs to me is, could a three year old get a decent sound out of a guitar? I struggled for a few painful months at 12!

Maybe keyboard / piano would be a good way to get him started?

[tammy]

cant say i have developed an appreciation for country or for rap!

can a child of three make a decent sound? i dont know. they teach violin to kids very young, and what i have heard sounds like someones grannys ghost! so maybe the sound that comes out isnt important for violin, it just needs to be more or less in the correct place.

well my son will be four in feb. we have promised him a real little guitar and he keeps asking about it. i will have to give it to him, but i feel it will be a supervised toy. ie can play under supervision.
we can use him as an experiment! lets keep this board going for at least 20 years, and we can see how he is doing!!!!
what a wonderful thread!

t

[shortys]

it really depends on individuals. like for me i've leant guitar and i dont seem to get the hang of the pattern of strumming and singing. so yeah while ma other mate just did it. its on individuals.

[bnjiman80]

cool, Tammy! If it works I will get a guitar for my boy too...he's only 10mths at the moment :p

Originally posted by tammy
they teach violin to kids very young, and what i have heard sounds like someones grannys ghost! so maybe the sound that comes out isnt important for violin, it just needs to be more or less in the correct place.

My dad is a pianist, but he developed a nasty habit of trying to play folk violin when I was living was him a couple of years ago. So from experience, the sound that comes out is important...Still I guess you must be very patient if you teach!

[tammy]

heh heh!
hey mozart did it at four.... whats a couple of years!!!!
as a mom i keep hearing how this moms kid can do this, that ones kid can do this.... blah blah blah...... so why not a guitar at 10 months? who is gonna be able to define whether the kid is playing the guitar or not! i just hope he can sing in tune to make his act more convincing!
t

[Bobloadmire]

nahhh

[B_Sharp]

DO NOT teach your young child guitar. BAD IDEA !

The 2 most important trainings a young child can have
are:

Standard Piano - HIGHEST importance for a young child

Classical Voice - Next HIGHEST in importance.

Those are the foundation of music. With those 2 skills
all other instruments are simple. Basic guitar only
takes 1 month to learn when the foundation is there.
Other music instruments also become simple to learn.

Guitar players are notoriously poor singers.

Skip those top 2 and your child will be playing 'catch up' for years.

Your child can specialize later, MUCH EASIER.

--
I did a write up about parental guidance concerning music
for their children. If you are interested I can post it here
if I can locate it.

[saxmidiman]

Wow. What a hot topic this one has become.

I've taught guitar for many years and like everyone knows, every kid is different. I have taught 4 year old kids and it's a lot of fun if you have experience with it. You must have the right teacher for it though. I normally would encourage any child to go into a music and movement type of course through your regional recreation center and see how things go.

If you want to go ahead, try a ukulele for a bit. 4 strings would be easier than two, and a child will love it just the same. If you do use a guitar, please put on nylon strings (They don't hurt the fingers as much) and make sure the strings are very close to the fretboard. I hope this helps.

Have fun. I always had enjoyable lessons with young kids.
;)

[saxmidiman]

I hate double posting, but let it be known that my son will be turning three as well and he loves guitar like you wouldn't beleive. I won't teach him a thing until his mother lets me. She knows where I sleep.

[jfkerluck]

It's never too early to start them with guitar playing.
You have to account for thier abilities, but the point is to familliarize them with it.

My daughter's 8 and she started 2 years ago, but it's been slow because we've been busy. But we are looking at lessons.

If you are going to teach your child yourself, the best approach is to avoid acting like a hockey parent and go easy on them!! ;)

[tammy]

Originally posted by B_Sharp

--
I did a write up about parental guidance concerning music
for their children. If you are interested I can post it here
if I can locate it.

yes please
i would be interested.

t

[drwatson1]

you have to ask yourself is he born to play???/

[tammy]

his mother says yes!!
t

[rknrne]

When my son was born as soon as he was able to sit in highchair I would prop him up in front of the piano while I made his breakfast for him and he would come up with amazing body slams , head shots, pounding the ivories to a whole new level....

and now he's gr 8 RCM looking to become a piano teacher to pay his way through university ( his choice)

Rule #1 : Make music fun !

ps. He won't 'jam' with me doesn't like those repetetive chord patterns whether classic rock, country or blues........

kids......go figure em !!

[rknrne]

Originally posted by TRACKMASTA
i really do appreciate ALL types of music EXCEPT COUNTRY!! ...;)



All country music isn't trash .
I agree most mainstream cowboy hat bands Suck the big one , but guys like :
Albert Lee
Jerry Douglas
Nashville superpickers ( check em out on Winmx for Strawberry fields forever)
Jimmy Bryant & Speedy West
Arlen Roth

are exciting to listen to !

[tammy]

Originally posted by rknrne
When my son was born as soon as he was able to sit in highchair I would prop him up in front of the piano while I made his breakfast for him and he would come up with amazing body slams , head shots, pounding the ivories to a whole new level....
!!


i love it! what a wonderful idea! i will recommend it to all my friends with tiny babies. somewhere there must be another mozart lurking!
t

[tammy]

Originally posted by tammy
can anybody advise me.
i have a three year old son.
when is it appropriate to teach him to play the guitar and how?
i already have a small guitar.
i really want him to learn to play. i dont care if its classical or pop.
t

[locki_star]

Well, i started singing at 8. I began as a choirboy in my local church, nobody really pushed me into it, i did it because the cute girl from over the road did it, however i grew to enjoy through positive feedback, from there i worked hard on my vocal and that drove me further and further into music. I sang with a few bands throughout college and university and developed my own unique style which i'm proud of, its only really been the last 2 or so years that i've finally found it. Now i've started learning to play acoustic. It's never too late to learn but to be honest, kids need to do kiddy things and enjoy life. You think of all the genius artists and most share a sadness. Just look at Mr Jacko. He lost his childhood because he was forced into music. I guess its all about balance. To be honest, i didn't appreciate music until my early 20s. To me, music was about drunken chanting at soccer games and nightclubs. Now, i listen to the likes of Eva Cassidy, Billie Holliday, Muse and Coldplay. Amazing.

[ski_power]

locki is right. Let the child decide.
Let the kids grow up, and not be forced into anything. Everybody is not a mozart or a beethoven. if they dont do mischief and all now they possibly cant do them after they've grown up. Whoever is the parent(s) maybe wanting to realise their dream through their child. They need to enjoy childhood as it never returns. Please don't let someone spoil a childhood of a kid, just to realise their dreams.
If the fellow is interested then there's no probs.

[tammy]

the little guitar i have was meant for his fourth birthday. he turned four the other day. i will wait for him to ask for the guitar. if he forgets, i will see if he wants it at five. it will be a 'supervised' toy. i have too much respect for musical instruments to let him damage it...

i know he is musical. whenever i sing he asks me to stop!
t

[jeaniesing]

:laugh: Tammy!!!! My mother tells us that she had to sit between my brother and I in church when we were little to keep us quiet... we got into the habit. She tells us that when we were older it meant an elbow from each side every time she sang ;)

[tammy]

i dont have too much of a complex.... i know i can sing. my husband/boyfriend, sings out of tune, yet lulls our son to sleep!
to be honest. i sing with emotion, maybe that is a bit hard to deal with at just turned 4!
t

[jeaniesing]

:laugh:.... just wait 'til he's 13......

[tammy]

whatcha mean? then i am not allowed to be seen around him when he is with his girlfriend or friends.....?
i accompanied my friend to the beach a few months ago. her 13 year old daughter came with in the car. as soon as we got to the beach, she said bye, and never saw her again until it was time for her 'lift' home!!
hurumph! so much to look forward to.
how do you know. do you have a thirteen year old?
t