hate filling midi requests?

[dshinka]

see, ive been thinking (a very dangerous pastime of mine!) and i remember this quote "give a man a fish and feed him for a day. teach a man how to fish and feed him for a lifetime..." let me rephrase it "give someone a midi and keep them happy for a day, teach someone how to expertly sequence midi files, and keep them happy for a lifetime..." Maybe I'm just stupid...

[jeaniesing]

Originally posted by dshinka
see, ive been thinking (a very dangerous pastime of mine!) and i remember this quote "give a man a fish and feed him for a day. teach a man how to fish and feed him for a lifetime..." let me rephrase it "give someone a midi and keep them happy for a day, teach someone how to expertly sequence midi files, and keep them happy for a lifetime..." Maybe I'm just stupid... ^ heyyy... I like him! (her??) but a question: is that an offer of services or a plea for them?

[voice of god]

good in theory but u forget one thing - a lot of ppl are lazy...... very, very lazy and impatient and untalented and cant work midi programmes and dont know what notes are being played, ah whatever

[Jack]

You are right but alot of this midi stuff requires alot of $ to invest to get you started. and for the bedroom singer who only wants to enteraine them selves down loading mids is an alternitive

[jeaniesing]

nahhhh - Jack... ask Black_Kat... she downloaded a free proggy and has started her MIDI career :)

[Black_Kat]

*snores* Oops...sorry...fell asleep on the keyboard...

Oh but yes! Jeanie showed me all about Anvil and then she helped me make one of the Midis in the Sequencing Contest. The worse of the two I think. Twelve Bar Blues (which she also taught me! ;) ) do not go with Jingle Bells...Then I copied one out of a script she gave me (from the play Nuncrackers) and forgot the ties in the entire song (not purposely!) and added a rhythm and changed some chords around so it sounded better and clearer! So, a long story short (for VOG) Yes. Jeanie is right. *snores* :hit::slap:

[jeaniesing]

Originally posted by Black_Kat
Yes. Jeanie is right. Is it just me or do the heavens open and shafts of brilliant white light bathe my skin and hair in an ethereal glisten accompanied by harpsong and choirs of angelic voices everytime someone says this?

:rolleyes: okay..... so its just me......

[ZelRiptha]

I thought those just followed you about as a matter of course?

:)

[vinsanity]

Originally posted by voice of god
- a lot of ppl are lazy...... very, very lazy and impatient and untalented and cant work midi programmes and dont know what notes are being played, ah whatever

i just dont know what what notes are being played... :hit:

until i take that college course jeanie suggested... music theory and aural recognition(?) i think

[rknrne]

Originally posted by voice of god
good in theory but u forget one thing - a lot of ppl are lazy...... very, very lazy and impatient and untalented and cant work midi programmes and dont know what notes are being played, ah whatever


* In best Elvis voice *

Thank you .... Thank you very much

[rknrne]

Originally posted by jeaniesing
Is it just me or do the heavens open and shafts of brilliant white light bathe my skin and hair in an ethereal glisten accompanied by harpsong and choirs of angelic voices everytime someone says this?

:rolleyes: okay..... so its just me......


I hear them too Jeanie .................:boink:

[blue2kay]

Personally i think composing MIDI files is very complex and will be very difficult for someone without a background in music. All those polyphony values and priority values won't make much sense to most people. What we need is a MIDI wizard program that even the stupidest person would find easy to use. I think that would solve most of our problems.

[rknrne]

I tear them apart mostly .. thru the event list (Cakewalk)
removing melody lines, guitar parts, adding bass lines( using the staff)
then add little cues like wood blocks or cymbal shots for tough parts that seem to go on with no drum signals,
like that ZZ Top song Waitin4 the bus/Jesus just left Chicago
that some one progmd well,
but someone else editted the crap out of....
that was a whole road trip getting that one right

If I can do it ................. any fool can

[dshinka]

Originally posted by jeaniesing
^ heyyy... I like him! (her??) but a question: is that an offer of services or a plea for them?

im a guy that hasn't spammed 100 posts yet to get an avatar... but yeah... but i think its pointless for all of you sequencers to work ur :assskake: off and have us leeches suck up ur hard work... itd make much more sense to teach us...

and [exspensive software] - [kazaa] = $0

so its not that exspensive

[davidk]

Originally posted by blue2kay
Personally i think composing MIDI files is very complex and will be very difficult for someone without a background in music. All those polyphony values and priority values won't make much sense to most people. What we need is a MIDI wizard program that even the stupidest person would find easy to use. I think that would solve most of our problems.

You're right, and there's a very big difference between editing someone else's work that's already been done, and composing a midifile from scratch.But, if there was a "wizard program" for everything, then no one would have any special talents that set them apart from everyone else.
I'm sure record companies would love it though. Just plug in the "hit wizard" to write some tunes, and then make a "holo-singer" to sing them. Then they wouldn't have an artist to pay.
;)
The easiest way to get good at programming midifiles, is to jump in and do it.Chart out the parts:you don't necessarily have to read music, just count the number of bars in btwn the verse and the chorus, and the guitar solo, and make a map...that way it's easier to stay organized as you're working...
once you find a piece of midi-composing software that you like(if you have troubles choosing, ask people that seem to know what they're talking about) stay with it, rather than jumping from software to software<--the more familiar you are with your software the easier it'll be to compose...
Listen to the original track and your midifile, and try and fix the things that don't sound right.
If you're serious about composing midifiles, go and buy an in-expensive keyboard and midi-interface for your computer:it helps immensely to be able to "manually" enter note information<-- you'd be surprised how easy some rhythms and simple melodies are to pick out on a keyboard...sequencing becomes more musical and more fun this way also, and there's always the "quantize" button to clean up your sloppy playing..:)
david

[tammy]

Originally posted by dshinka
, teach someone how to expertly sequence midi files, and keep them happy for a lifetime..." Maybe I'm just stupid... [/B]

oh yes please come teach me please please please!!!!!
i live in south africa.
it should only take about 20 years to get me playing keyboard well enough to make midi files.
do you have the time?
t

[ZelRiptha]

You don't really need to play the keyboard to sequence. I've sequenced for 20 years without a keyboard. :) It's probably more the musical knowledge that's the challenge.

[tammy]

ok man of great knowledge... explain.
i have cakewalk.
a casio keyboard tell me how!!!!!
where do i start?
at the computer or at the keyboard.
come on come on.
theres a spare room in my flat with an almost sea view.
just bring your brain...
t

[ZelRiptha]

If I had more time and fewer obligations I'd be glad to oblige...

but in the absence of that eventuality...

Most MIDI files I create, I don't "play". I simply click the notes in with a mouse. The real trick is having the ears to figure out which instruments are hitting which notes at which times. And how to make your synth reproduce those sounds as realistically as possible. I know it's not easy. But you might try a simple tune to begin with, like Imagine. See if you can't get it sounding pretty nice. If you have questions about specifics, I'll be glad to answer when I have a few minutes. :)

[Nyxan]

I'm no great sequencer, but practise makes perfect, so I try to create the best midi I can. If I strike trouble that I cant fix, I ask, but the best way is to try...have a go...as BK said there is free software out there....and you'd be surprised how much pleasure is gained from creating a song, even if its not an original, making music is a pleasure in life...so give yourself...and the lazy ones...(points at VOG..lol) a buzz.....

[kim_eh]

I can't sequence to save my life. I can't play, I just sing! :D

[tammy]

no come on guys. i am serious. be simpler.
how do i start. how can i press the mouse button. what programme do i use.
step by step explain so i can make my own midis.
come on.
so lets say i start with imagine.
i play the cd. get the tune in my head.
what next?
use the computer and mouse with what?????
t

[voice of god]

get a midi editing program

I use logic Audio. Everyone uses different ones.

Tell us what one u have and we'll go from there.

Do u have one?

[ZelRiptha]

1. You've got Cakewalk, so bring it up and open the staff view, or the piano roll view, whichever you're more comfortable using to input notes. (I prefer the staff view.) Set it up where you're working on a new, blank file. Set up the instruments you'll think you need (for Imagine, you'd start with piano, and something melodic for the vocals). Save the empty file as Imagine.mid, or whatever you'd like to call it.

2. Listen to the tune. This part depends a little bit on you. I listen to 5-10 seconds at a time, then do entry, listen again for nuances, then correct. This is an iterative (extremely iterative, sometimes) process, so be patient. If your ears and memory are good, you could do much longer stretches at a time before you relisten and correct. The first time you do this, you may have trouble finding the notes. Is the first note a C or a D? Is the chord voicing first or second inversion? This depends on how good your musical ears are. The theory is only important if it helps you. If you don't know theory (harmony, etc.) don't worry. You'll just have to trust your ears more, and less of the work will seem "automatic". Do this iteration until you've got the first 10 seconds down pat. Be pleased with your intermediate success.

3. Repeat #2 over and over as you progress through the song. It might help if you do this by instrument in more complicated songs. For example, lay down only the drum or bass track for 24 bars, get it right, then put in rhythm guitar, lead, and vocals. I tend to lay down the bass line as it helps me establish the harmonic progressions in the song which makes it easier for me to follow with the other instruments.

4. Patience is important. This is a bit like making an oil painting. You can correct and correct for as long as you like, until it's just the way you want it. Or you can stop and be satisfied with a rougher product.

If you need specific help with how to use Cakewalk, post again or PM me. I'll see what I can do.

BTW, here's an example of how I helped a guy improve his MIDI. It was only a one step iteration since I finished the file, but it shows how a MIDI can be improved.

http://board.midibuddy.net/t92313.html

Edit: Here's another example of improving a MIDI.
http://board.midibuddy.net/t85961.html

[jeaniesing]

I start with the bass line Tammy... I do, generally, a section at a time... My advice is to start with an easy ballad because things go by more slowly...
•listen to a section...
•be able to sing the pitches in your head...
•On the top menu "View," New," Staff" (be warned I have an old version it might have changed slightly
•choose the little pencil Icon and drag a note-value (like a quarter note or whatever you believe it to be) onto the staff... you should be able to hear that note to place it on the right pitch... don't worry if its in the wrong octave you can change that later (through "edit," "transpose"... -12 is an octave down)

You can do the whole song in a similar manner... maybe before you do big thing let us hear a little "London Bridge" or "Kookaburra" to test your early skills ;)

[Graeme]

I can't agree with the 'dragging notes around' approach - this is a really crude way to compose using midi and is more likely to put off a beginner than encourage them.

Anyone with a musical ear - and anyone without a musical ear shouldn't be playing with midi in the first place, it is, after all, a musicians tool - can pick out notes on a keyboard... and that's the most efficient way to do it. Buy a cheap midi keyboard controller (and there are some really cheap ones around) connect it up to your sequencer of choice and just pick out the notes on the keyboard. This is far more intuitive than dragging notes on a score or piano roll editor. If you get the odd one wrong, then it can be corrected later using these techniques.

There's a common misconception that you have to be able to play keys to work in midi - nothing is further from the truth. I'm a lousy keyboard player, but using a sequencer allows me to sound as though it's my primary instrument.

Another advantage is, as with any other instrument, the more you play it, the better you get and the quicker the whole process becomes.

Remember, a midi sequencer is the musical equivalent of the word processor - you throw it all down and sort out the parts at your leisure.

[tammy]

ok
now i got cha.
i knew it was too good too be true.
i have tried working with cakewalk, and havent managed to figure basic things out.
for eg. making simple crotchet notes, and then a semiquaver rest etc etc.
i am a total beginner....
oh well back to the drawing board.
i would love lessons on cakewalk.
the manuel is greek to me!
i need to start at page one and learn new words like arm clone huh?) console etc.
no idea what they mean...
i will have to wait till my son is married (he is 4 now) before i get a change to figure that lot out....
sigh.
but zel... i might take your offer up if i get a chance to work on midi and get stuck!
thanks

hmmmm
how about a thread.
walking through cakewalk. a beginners guide to making midis..
hmmmmm.
how about it anyone???
i would sign up.
t

t

[jeaniesing]

Originally posted by Graeme
I can't agree with the 'dragging notes around' approach - this is a really crude way to compose using midi and is more likely to put off a beginner than encourage them.

Oh I agree Graeme... but tammy specified that she has a computer and a mouse!

Purchasing an inexpensive MIDI keyboard will ease the process without fail. I, too, am an embarassingly poor pianist (my skill in typing vaguely surpassing my piano abilities for those who have chatted with me when I don't take the time to edit :rolleyes: ). but you cannot ignore the beauty of Zel's keyboard-less works!

[tammy]

huh
just because i have a keyboard. casio ctk 811 ex, still doesnt mean i can use it to make midis....
sigh.....
my solution.
come on.
learn to sequence at midibuddy, or ...
someone come visit s.a. for a year and teach me in between your working holiday!!!
t

[voice of god]

Tammy, I sequence my midis with my computer and the mouse.

All u need is a midi editing program.

If you download a version of Logic Audio (from k@z@@ if u dare) I can walk u thru it step by step.

Zel said u already hav cakewalk is this correct?

[tammy]

yes i do have cakewalk.
does one get viruses from logic audio? is that the risk?
t

[voice of god]

Originally posted by tammy
yes i do have cakewalk.
does one get viruses from logic audio? is that the risk?
t

no viruses from logic audio, but u may get viruses from K@z@@(so they say)

but since u have cakewalk just use it

heres how I do it

- open cakewalk
- create a bass track by click and drag with the pencil tool(have a look its got to be somewhere on the left) (just click and holdnext to where it say fingered bass(maybe channel 2) then dragto the right so u create a block)
- click on the bass track(block) then open or view - piano roll
- in the piano roll is a keyboard on the left of screen that corresponds to notes(that you will create
- create notes by using the pencil tool

maybe do this first actually
-open cakewalk
-open or inport a midi file that u like
click on the bass track so u highlight it
- then file open or view PIANO ROLL
-check out what happens in the piano roll, play the file to see if u can get an idea of whats happening
-delete some of the notes and change,create some, just play around


then try and create your own as above

hope that made sense

[voice of god]

the PIANO ROLL is where u create midis with ur mouse (try it)

[CyberCat]

see, ive been thinking (a very dangerous pastime of mine!) and i remember this quote "give a man a fish and feed him for a day. teach a man how to fish and feed him for a lifetime..." let me rephrase it "give someone a midi and keep them happy for a day, teach someone how to expertly sequence midi files, and keep them happy for a lifetime..." Maybe I'm just stupid...

Interesting thought only problem is that most people are too lazy to do it themselves or they don't have the right hardware/software.

[tammy]

i think i know where i was going wrong. i tried to create the notes in the stave. took me ages just to do a few notes.
ok gotta give this a try.
give me a year! get ready for the next question!
t

[voice of god]

Originally posted by tammy
i think i know where i was going wrong. i tried to create the notes in the stave. took me ages just to do a few notes.
ok gotta give this a try.
give me a year! get ready for the next question!
t

yeah, pinao roll is the go, ur on a winner now

let us know how u go, what song do u want to do?

[tammy]

hmm not sure yet.
let me think.
i might start with kiddie songs just to see how it works.
something like mulberry bush or i'm a little teapot. i sing at a kiddies school, so this would be a good place to start. then instead of playing it on guitar i could use my midis.. wow...
sounds promising.
t

[voice of god]

Originally posted by tammy
hmm not sure yet.
let me think.
i might start with kiddie songs just to see how it works.
something like mulberry bush or i'm a little teapot. i sing at a kiddies school, so this would be a good place to start. then instead of playing it on guitar i could use my midis.. wow...
sounds promising.
t

why dont you do a simple bass track(if you know the guitar chords it makes it easy) and a very simple drum track(once u do one bar you can just copy and paste)

then you have yourself a backing track, so you PLAY ALONG with it with your guitar and, viola! the kids go wild!:)

[charbach007]

Hmm....interesting idea. I don't fill requests anyways so we'll see

[tomaweg]

wow other people know what its like not being able to find midis! i thought i was alone there!